• Home
  • About Inspector Gadget
  • Online Shop
  • Ruralshire
  • The Book

POLICE INSPECTOR BLOG

Doughnuts & Diversity in riot-torn England, 2012.

Feeds:
Posts
Comments
« Another classic idea from ‘the top’
They said it would never happen. »

Elected Commissioners, Frontline Cuts; all a smokescreen.

March 30, 2011 by inspectorgadget

People just don’t seem to get it.

All this argument about whether budget cuts will affect the so-called police front line completely misses the point. Even if the front line was a million strong, with the piss-poor sentencing we currently have, it would make no difference.

Take Billy McBride from The Swamp Estate in Ruraltown. Billy was nicked again by my team this morning on suspicion of stealing a minibus. He was clearly seen on CCTV doing this, his dabs are inside the vehicle and his DNA is all over the seats. In addition to this, he admitted the whole thing, even giving us the location of the CD player from the dashboard before we could finish getting the caution out.

I was present when the ‘strike’ went in at Billy’s mother’s house. He was found in the rear yard, hanging out the washing and greeted the team with a smile of resignation. No attempt to run, no angry denials, no demanding to know why we were there. Billy is totally comfortable with the whole criminal justice process from start to finish because he knows that he is largely untouchable for some reason. He has over 100 previous convictions for similar offences. He goes to prison for just long enough to get processed, before he is out again, released on some scheme or programme to steal again.

No one can really remember the exact date when stealing over and over again became acceptable, but the total lack of any meaningful consequences has effectively inoculated Billy from ever having to worry about being held to account for his actions. Billy has had it all over the years; restorative justice where he had to write an apology to his victim, community sentencing where he was supposed to ‘pay back’ for his crimes, counselling for anger management, alcohol rehabilitation and short jail sentences.

Billy loves all this of course because it represents a victory against his one big fear; the long prison sentence. Billy says, on his daughters eyes, he could not ‘do time’. So we acquiesce and he doesn’t have to. So Billy and his criminal associates, who constitute about 45% of the male population of the estate, carry on taking what ever they want from pensioners and school kids, and burgling our houses or stealing our cars.

So you see, in terms of crime reduction, it really doesn’t matter how big the front line is, it doesn’t matter if the Chief is elected and it doesn’t matter if we find efficiencies or not.

Gadget Note: Found in Billy’s trouser pockets – one lock-knife (not illegal since he was at home) some cannabis, £300 in used notes, someone else’s credit card and a mobile phone belonging to a kid who was robbed yesterday. Billy will dress in a nice borrowed suit, say he found these items on the way home and tell a sob-story about ‘turning his life around’ for his child. He will swear everything on his daughter’s eyes and some silly, half-demented, over privileged psuedo-beak will let him off again.

Advertisement

Share this:

  • Share
  • Facebook
  • Twitter

Posted in Perverting the Course of Justice, published by Monday Books, is available in all good bookstores, at amazon.co.uk and as an e-Book. | 291 Comments

291 Responses

  1. on March 30, 2011 at 4:38 pm NornIron

    First.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 4:47 pm NornIron

      ‘DNA is all over the seats’ reminds me of a chap on my patch like Billy. About 18 months ago I noticed an extremely dodgy looking car, decided to pull it over, but it conversely decided not to. After a chase-that-wasn’t-a-chase he drove into a dead end and bailed out of the car, still moving. He was lifted a short time later. The car was seized; there was a quantity of ..ahem, male genetic material on the seat, and wheel where some transfer from his hands had occurred. The same genetic material was on his trousers too. He got 8 weeks for dangerous driving, excess alcohol, disqual driving, no insurance, no licence, assault Police. I have a feeling that had he got more the temptation to do this would be not so great.


      • on March 30, 2011 at 5:05 pm JuliaM

        Maybe he had learned to drive while in America, and misunderstood the term ‘stick shift’..?


      • on March 30, 2011 at 6:30 pm PC Lightyear

        How and why did the chap’s ‘gentleman gel’ get there in the first place??!! Brings a new meaning to ‘Failing to stop’


        • on March 30, 2011 at 8:45 pm No Duff

          I’m a bit more concerned about the poor bobby who got assaulted by this guy with his “man jam” all over his hands!!

          Hope they got more than £50 for that!


          • on March 31, 2011 at 9:11 am PC Lightyear

            Nah just given some baby wipes


        • on March 30, 2011 at 10:15 pm Simple Simon

          … and to ‘I hope you’ll come quietly’ !!


      • on March 31, 2011 at 9:14 am Deborah Parr

        Yuuurrrgghhhhhh!!!!!


    • on March 31, 2011 at 5:45 pm Awakening Tempest

      The whole police system from A to Z is a flop and has always been. Billy, Ted, or bloody Harry are a product of our society – sorry I meant civilised society. But I guess you boys at the grass level have no power but to take the dog for a walk in the park.

      Is capital punishment the answer or are you going tear that idea into bits? What is your solution put them in jail and throw away the key and keep adding to the head-count almost every minute.


      • on March 31, 2011 at 7:14 pm officer dibble

        I think that the argument that sending recidivists to prison for long sentences would swamp the prison service is a bit bogus. I think that most people on here would agree that most crimes are committed by a hardcore of criminals which if anything is growing due to the lack of any effective deterrent. The way the criminal justice system works at the moment seeks to minimise the time criminals spend in prison but in actuality the hardcore criminals still probably spend a large proportion of their life in prison anyway but in small sentences interspersed with short periods at liberty when they go on to commit their next offence. The effect of lengthy sentences would be that the offender spends roughly the same amount of time in prison but without the opportunity to commit those additional offences thus reducing the number of victims of crime but with minimal additional cost. Additionally from personal experience I can say that offenders do decide what offences to commit partly as a function of the likely outcome. That is one reason why burglary other is far more popular with successful criminals than burglary dwellings.


      • on March 31, 2011 at 11:44 pm Stephen W

        I vote that we give repeat offenders with 2 or more convictions a mandatory minimum death sentence without the right to appeal. As it is extremely unlikely for an inocent person to get two seperate convictions appeals are unnecesary. As most crimes are comited by people with very long rep sheets this policiy would lead to a rapid decrease in both the crime rate and the prison population especially if enforced retrospectively. As all youth ofenders go on to be adult ofenders I also vote we reduce the age of criminal responcibility to 6, someone who cannot empathise by that age never will.


  2. on March 30, 2011 at 4:39 pm Little old me

    First?!


    • on March 30, 2011 at 4:39 pm Little old me

      Ah well :)


      • on March 30, 2011 at 4:42 pm Little old me

        Totally agree there, until the day sentencing makes sense and you really have to PAY for what you did, it sadly won’t matter how many police officers are out on the streets. :(


  3. on March 30, 2011 at 4:40 pm Proper Copper

    Fourth?


  4. on March 30, 2011 at 4:41 pm clusterfck

    Top 5


  5. on March 30, 2011 at 4:43 pm Westend charlie

    1st.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 4:50 pm Westend charlie

      A mile off 1st. I couldn’t hit a cows arse with a banjo today, I’m well off my game must be the back shift and the 8 month old bambino wanting to discuss the meaning of life the universe and nappies at 4 am


      • on March 30, 2011 at 10:07 pm MPS (not) Probie

        No excuses will be accepted. This is for strict compliance.
        ;-)


      • on March 30, 2011 at 10:16 pm Minty

        Mate. Having an 8 month old beats a first any day (just).


  6. on March 30, 2011 at 4:43 pm Son of Vimes

    Top 10


    • on March 31, 2011 at 5:37 am phiangle

      Is your avatar doing the Y from YMCA?


  7. on March 30, 2011 at 4:44 pm Westend charlie

    Fizzled me snizzel


  8. on March 30, 2011 at 4:46 pm Dave the Dog

    Eighth, top ten again, that’ll do me.


  9. on March 30, 2011 at 4:48 pm oliversarmy2202

    Best for ages – I’m the king of the World!


    • on March 30, 2011 at 4:50 pm oliversarmy2202

      8th – delighted, although in hindsight my ‘king of the world’ comment may have been OTT. :-0

      BTW – I’m not an Inspector!


  10. on March 30, 2011 at 4:48 pm Pocket Notebook Boy

    My god Gadget you’re on a roll – I can’t keep up with all these posts!

    As it’s clear the ConDems are determined to screw us over and sink the ship for good, I think we should just go the Judge Dredd route and start offing perps as soon as they reach their third offence. The crime rate would plummet, I guaranfuckingtee it.

    Oh, by the way – fifteenth?


    • on March 30, 2011 at 9:05 pm Mjolinir

      @PNB – //go the Judge Dredd route //

      What about this ["A Gift from Earth" - Larry Niven - 1968]?

      //Any citizen, with the help of the organ banks, can live as long as it takes his central nervous system to wear out. This can be a very long time if his circulatory system is kept functioning. … But the citizen, cannot take more out of the organ banks than goes into them. He must do his utmost to see that they are supplied. … The only feasible method of supplying the organ banks is through execution of criminals. … A criminal’s pirated body can save a dozen lives. There is now no valid argument against capital punishment for any given crime; for all such argument seeks to prove that killing a man does society no good.
      Hence the citizen, who wants to live as long and as healthily as possible, will vote any crime into a capital crime if the organ banks are short of material. … Cite Earth’s capital punishment for false advertising, income tax evasion, air pollution, having children without a license.
      The wonder was that it had taken so long to pass these laws.//


    • on March 31, 2011 at 11:25 am Adam

      I’d certainly hold up the recidivism stats as compelling evidence.

      “Only 0.7% of summarily executed perpetrators re-offended… and we believe that 0.7% could be down to a paper-work error..”


  11. on March 30, 2011 at 4:51 pm Lumberjack

    Top 10..eh? could it be?…timberrrrrrrrrr…


  12. on March 30, 2011 at 4:55 pm old codger

    so I see sky news is reading your blogs – truly made it!


    • on March 30, 2011 at 6:05 pm inspectorgadget

      Really? Do you have any further info on this?


  13. on March 30, 2011 at 5:02 pm oliversarmy2202

    My solution –

    We take an small island, Scotland has loads, they won’t miss one. Stick some wood and food on it – sheep and a few tins etc (I don’t want to appear cruel after all.)

    Next –

    Publicise what we’re going to do, loud and long, on every imaginable media, so there’s no excuse for not knowing what’s coming.

    Which is –

    A strict 3 strikes and you’re off to the island for ever policy.
    Everyone will start with a zero, yes everyone, to be uber fair. Then every offence which would have carried a sentence of say, 3 years or more, counts as a strike. Serious offences obviously would be 3 straight off.

    Then off you pop old fellow, you were warned, now it’s time to see if you really are johnny big pyjamas as you share a windswept isle with Big Vern etc.
    All you have to worry about is the next meal and trying to stop infected cons hanging out of your farter.

    Zero running costs, crime free streets and technically we haven’t ‘killed’ anyone.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 5:13 pm dogman

      Cant you use a large island off Wales instead !!!


      • on March 30, 2011 at 5:43 pm Pocket Notebook Boy

        Oi, you leave the Motherland alone!!!


      • on March 30, 2011 at 9:17 pm Druid Shift Skipper

        No, I’m afraid that wouldn’t be possible for technical reasons ;-) )


    • on March 30, 2011 at 5:25 pm Greater Personchester Cop

      Let us set up a penal colony in an impoverished African nation.

      They can look after our vermin and we can pay them.

      Everyones a winner.

      And we don’t ruin a lovely Scottish Island. I personally would envy a life as a cop there … a Hamish Macbeth on South Uist or Colonsay !!

      PS – It will cost around 10p per week per prisoner in the Sudan. French Congo, Sierra Leone etc and the prison can be surrounded by a game park with Lions fed on lettuce and salt….that should dissuade any escape attempts.


      • on March 31, 2011 at 6:17 am Grimupnorth

        It’s not called the wild west for nothing. When it goes Peter tong the nearest back up is a ferry ride away. On the plus side that only happens twice a year


    • on March 30, 2011 at 5:49 pm SC16 (retired)

      Erm… we used to have one of those. It is now recruiting disillusioned British Coppers. :-)


      • on March 30, 2011 at 5:57 pm oliversarmy2202

        Mine has no ‘ordinary people’ just cons. Lots and lots of cons. Do as you like, to whom you like for as long as you like.
        But you’re never getting off the island.

        Anglesey? (Sorry PNB!)


    • on March 30, 2011 at 5:54 pm Carlos Spicyweiner

      I always liked the idea of using decommissioned oil rigs for this – less chance of being able to swim back if stuck in the north sea!


      • on March 31, 2011 at 9:21 am Minty

        Isn’t the Ark Royal being sold off?? Perfect.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 6:19 pm Fee

      I vote for Gruinard – after we’ve dumped a bit more anthrax that is!


      • on March 30, 2011 at 8:17 pm Greater Personchester Cop

        Gruinard is now deemed safe…

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruinard_Island

        FFS don’t send prisoners there. It is a lovely area of Wester Ross. I go fishing up there regularily. It is my bolt hole away from the crims of Manchester.

        Trust me – pay Loch Ewe, Gairloch, Ullapool and the area a visit and you will be contacting Northern Constabulary for a transfer.


        • on March 31, 2011 at 8:37 am clusterfck

          Gairloch and Loch Ewe. Stunning area. Had the pleasure of spending six months working in Loch Ewe many moons and a whole different life ago.

          Seriously guys and girls, it is jaw dropping. Firemore Beach on a sunny day easily beats the south of (spit) France any day. Granted, only two sunny days a year but that isn’t the point……


        • on March 31, 2011 at 12:48 pm Colin

          Shhhhh, do you mind…..

          If that sort of thing becomes common knowledge, it will be harder for us burnt out Met/GMP Cops to take early ‘retirement’ in our career.

          Mind you, quite a few go back who can’t take to the pace/way of life.

          I think they feel guilty getting paid the same as their colleagues they left behind who actually earn their money.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 3:32 pm Gary

      As there are so many crims it might be easier for the law abiding to go to the island………….


  14. on March 30, 2011 at 5:03 pm A man with plenty to hide

    Top 20, at least?


  15. on March 30, 2011 at 5:06 pm JuliaM

    “He will swear everything on his daughter’s eyes and some silly, half-demented, over privileged psuedo-beak will let him off again.He will swear everything on his daughter’s eyes and some silly, half-demented, over privileged psuedo-beak will let him off again.”

    I’ve been combing the local newspaper sites for blogging material for a while now. It’s thoroughly depressing how often the same old story is trotted out…


    • on March 30, 2011 at 8:29 pm tattyfalarr

      Love your blog…read it every day…comment quite a bit…haven’t been chewed out yet…result ! :)


      • on March 31, 2011 at 8:43 am JuliaM

        Cheers! ;)


    • on March 31, 2011 at 2:33 pm tattyfalarr

      Re: Blogging material…this perhaps ? :

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371831/Asian-youths-sent-seaside-avoid-clashes-right-wing-march-jailed–starting-fight.html

      “‘I would not say the trip had failed. Its purpose was to keep them away from the march. If they got involved in something else in Blackpool, that’s another matter.’

      Derrick Campbell,
      Race Equality Sandwell”


      • on March 31, 2011 at 5:24 pm JuliaM

        Yup, that one’s coming up tomorrow, for sure! What were they thinking…?


        • on March 31, 2011 at 5:52 pm tattyfalarr

          *rolls eyes*


  16. on March 30, 2011 at 5:06 pm Doxon of Dick Green

    Top 20?


  17. on March 30, 2011 at 5:16 pm jaded

    Before I joined the police my two worries were a)every criminal wanting to fight when arrested and b)gory stuff.
    I soon realised that unlike on the Bill most criminals don’t fight you. I think as IG pointed out,what’s the point? Nothing much happens at court anyway so why piss off Mr Policeman and get a slap back?
    Unfortunately (b) still applies (a bit).


    • on March 30, 2011 at 5:42 pm Civ_In_The_City

      (a) and (b), two of the reasons why I`m a civ, always will be a civ, and I`m very happy to be called a civ (instead of ‘police staff’ so it sounds like we`re all the same, we are not).

      Nobody will phone me at 4:00 in the morning to go and tell someone their only daughter was wrapped round a tree at 80Mph.

      (I get other work relate calls at all hours but with the rate dropping to £15 an hour I`m not sure if I`ll have a signal much longer, knowwhatimean?).


  18. on March 30, 2011 at 5:21 pm electricpics

    Residing in North Tyneside I am cheered that two local scrotes, Ryan Leck and Ryan Saint, both at least third generation of local scrote families, were convicted yesterday of murdering Andrew Smart, a lonely man very much down on his luck after being a successful family and business man, and a former schoolmate of mine. The two scum stamped Andrew to death with no remorse.

    My point is that if these two pieces of shit had been sentenced properly in the past, for their catalogue of offending, despite their tender age of 19, Andrew would probably still be alive and receiving the help he deserved.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 6:03 pm inspectorgadget

      What he said. Bad story. Very bad.


      • on March 30, 2011 at 9:18 pm Mjolinir

        Local paper report – //MURDER suspect Ryan Leck told jurors his co-accused attacked him in prison and called him a grass//

        Oh – and it was the victim’s ‘fault’ – //He said: “Yeah it’s right I ripped him off but that’s not taking advantage of him. He shouldn’t have handed the money over, it’s not my fault is it. I took money from him. It was his fault for asking people he doesn’t know to get him skunk.”//

        Read More http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north-east-news/evening-chronicle-news/2011/03/25/murder-suspect-ryan-leck-says-co-accused-attacked-him-in-jail-and-called-him-grass-72703-28402708/#ixzz1I7Usnwcn

        Read More http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north-east-news/evening-chronicle-news/2011/03/25/murder-suspect-ryan-leck-says-co-accused-attacked-him-in-jail-and-called-him-grass-72703-28402708/#ixzz1I7UFJiFk


      • on March 31, 2011 at 8:52 am JuliaM

        Checked this one out – it appears that one of the two creatures ‘refused to attend court’, though the story seems to have been taken down.

        Why are they allowed to refuse? In the US they’d be dragged in shackles. It should be the same here…


        • on March 31, 2011 at 9:17 am PC Lightyear

          Should be instant Guilty verdict


          • on March 31, 2011 at 11:56 am Peterloo

            I agree – if they refuse to attend court then it should be a ‘no defense offered’ resulting in automatic maximum sentence.

            Ref Mjolinir’s link to the newspaper report – wouldn’t you just like to wipe the smirk off the face of the middle scrote?


  19. on March 30, 2011 at 5:21 pm response bobby

    Great post Boss. This is the one thing that boils my piss. I have lost count of the amount of times I have either nipped back to the mags court after giving my evidence or looked on the computer to be totally deflated by the piss poor joke of a sentance some half witted joke of a beak has handed out to a local fuckwitt for his 300,000 offence.
    I often just laugh and think whats the point. Then I remember the amount of work these idiots cause me and will continue to do so. Your so right in saying the last thing these people want is a long stretch.
    Oh on a foot note, I am giving evidnce in the next couple of weeks in 2 cases which almost mirror the above and involve one of our most hardened ppo s. I will keep you updated on the result. However I feel a sad inevitability already regarding these cases.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 5:29 pm Greater Personchester Cop

      I imagine a few cops were disappointed with this piss poor sentence …

      http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3499088/Judge-lets-off-pusher-with-50k-drug-haul-including-crystal-meth.html

      The Judge needs force feeding crystal meth as punishment !


      • on March 30, 2011 at 7:41 pm pj21

        Now, THAT boils my piss! FFS what is this country coming to!


  20. on March 30, 2011 at 5:23 pm Allan

    I’m all in favour of second chances, maybe even third chances. But fourth, fifth, sixth… hundredth? It’s ridiculous.

    I remember reading Starship Troopers, in which the utopian Terran Federation(the film features a rather dystopian piss-take unfortunately) began in the UK when veterans and police take control after the continual leniancy towards persistant criminality caused the collapse of society.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 6:00 pm The Crunch

      Lol, the author of Starship Troopers was a lunatic.


      • on March 30, 2011 at 10:01 pm Allan

        In what way was Heinlein a lunatic?

        He seems to have believed in liberty and equality for all(pretty rare in 1950s America) tempered with a strong sense of social duty and personal responsibility.

        Perhaps if there were more “lunatics” like him, the world might be a tad better.


        • on March 31, 2011 at 8:47 am DB

          Heinlein’s Stranger in a Strange Land is another great book. Apart from some big words and ideas there’s nothing loony about it.


      • on March 31, 2011 at 12:02 pm Peterloo

        One man’s lunatic is another man’s visionary!


    • on March 31, 2011 at 12:29 pm Mjolinir

      This is Johnny (the ”Star-ship Trooper”) – reminiscing about the US in the 1950s –

      “Law-abiding people hardly dared go into a public park at night. To do so was to risk attack by wolf packs of children, A boy might be arrested many times and convicted several times before he was punished– and then it would be merely confinement, with others like him from whom he learned still more criminal habits. If he kept out of major trouble while confined, he could usually evade most of even that mild punishment, be given probation
      This incredible sequence could go on for years while his crimes increased in frequency and viciousness, with no punishment whatever save rare dull-but-comfortable confinements.
      These juvenile criminals hit a low level. Born with only instinct for survival, the highest morality they achieved was shaky loyalty to a peer group, a street gang … Then suddenly, usually by law on his eighteenth birthday, this ‘juvenile delinquent’ becomes an adult criminal.”

      ‘Lunatic’ – something is.


      • on March 31, 2011 at 11:37 pm PC Lightyear

        I wouldn’t call it ‘Lunatic’ I’d call it visionary.

        do any of those words not ring true?

        “To the evelasting glory of the Infantry….shines the name….shines the name of Rodger Young”


  21. on March 30, 2011 at 5:26 pm Doxon of Dick Green

    When will those fools who come up with barmy ideas realise that the best form of crime prevention is locking offenders up.

    We have witnessed other deterrents being tried, then witnessed them failing.

    We must take the fear of crime from the decent people and put it back where it belongs, with the criminal. We, and indeed the decent members of society expect nothing less.

    I now work in commercial and civil law only because having spent a career doing my level best to put criminals in prison, I couldn’t, with good conscience, have another career doing my level best keeping them out.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 6:03 pm The Crunch

      I’m sorry to rain on your parade but deterrents are not as effective as you think they are, for a start nobody commits a crime with the intention or expectation that they’ll get caught.


      • on March 30, 2011 at 6:38 pm Seamus

        Maybe so, but at least if they’re banged up for a decent stretch they’re not out screwing my house or robbing their victims…


        • on March 31, 2011 at 8:59 am JuliaM

          What Seamus says. In spades.


        • on March 31, 2011 at 10:52 am Water Rat

          Exactly. Prison is not, and never will be about reform, but should be about containment. It is not there to rehabilitate the offender, but to protect the victim from habitual criminals.

          Every second sentence should be 50% longer than the last one. And lets scotch the myth that each and every prisoner costs £50k+ a year to house. If that were true nobody would go to prison and we’d be hanging people for shoplifting.

          These nonsense figures are pure false accounting, because they include capital costs. You don’t rebuild the prison every year. Prisoners average annual costs: Clothing, medical, dental, light, heat, laundry, food. £5k or less? Probably a lot less than a years jobseekers allowance.


      • on March 30, 2011 at 6:40 pm PC Lightyear

        Sorry to rain on yours (well I’m not really but you know what I mean) but well publicised and known in advance deterrents most certainly do bloody well work.

        I’ve known quite a few cons who have done serious porridge turn their life around as the thought of losing any more years of seeing their kid grow up scares them, plus the thought of someone ploughing their Missus whilst they’re inside.
        I’ve had grown double-hard-B’stard men breakdown and CRY in court when they’re sent down. It works.


      • on March 30, 2011 at 6:40 pm electricpics

        Have you ever met an offender? Most of the low lifes I come into contact know fine well they’ll get caught, which is the whole point of Gadget’s post: They don’t care because they’re fully aware that they’ll end up with a slap on the wrist at worst. Community Sentence? Great way to meet the lads on Saturday mornings, do nothing, apart from arranging more crime and maybe a little light dealing. Bender? Rolling around laughing at the judge. ASBO? Criminal fraternity Certificate of Basic Enrollment. Prison? Ah, now the smile’s gone.


      • on March 30, 2011 at 6:41 pm careca

        Eh? It’s not (only) about deterring scum. It is about keeping them locked up for a few years as (a) a way of stopping them offend for those years and (b) a punishment (ooh nasty word, heaven forfend).


      • on March 30, 2011 at 6:57 pm Doxon of Dick Green

        You haven’t rained on my parade, The crunch.

        Locking criminals up for a considerable term of imprisonment will serve to deter others, certainly, and once they are inside the wont be blighting other people’s lives. Quite simple really.


      • on March 30, 2011 at 10:05 pm SC Bakerloo

        “for a start nobody commits a crime with the intention or expectation that they’ll get caught.”

        Numerous heroin addicts do so in order to go inside to get on the methodone…


        • on March 31, 2011 at 8:05 am Seamus

          …and vagrants, quite often deal with vagrants who are clearly trying to get nicked (spookily enough, esp. in winter)


      • on March 31, 2011 at 8:46 am bruce

        ‘nobody commits a crime with the intention or expectation that they’ll get caught.’

        But they can learn, can’t they? Especially if they’re surrounded by others with the same experience. And if they are incapable of learning, well longer sentences will keep the rest of us safer.


      • on March 31, 2011 at 9:05 am Metcountymounty

        Sorry, that’s absolute shite. I’ve nicked people who have committed an obvious offence to breach their licence because they want to go back inside. The worst was a guy who beat the crap out of a paramedic so he could go back inside after getting booted out of his hostel and had no where to stay, he waited nearby at a bus stop and came over when he heard the blues and gave himself up.


  22. on March 30, 2011 at 5:35 pm Don Esteban

    Sadly…………. an oh so familiar story. Where will it all end.

    By default the U.K is heading rapidly toward a state of anarchy for the underclass, doing what they like with impunity.

    The courts now only punish “persons of previous good charachter.

    It appears that the only answer is some form of extremism, like “midnight express” style prisons perhaps?


  23. on March 30, 2011 at 5:44 pm psdmole

    If Mr Cameron doesn’t think that cutting the police budget by 20% will affect frontline services and the service we provide to the public, then perhaps we ought to suggest that the budget for MP’s is cut by 20%, their boundaries are amalgamated and have fewer of them. Why should there be more than one MP for a large city, surely one person could do it couldn’t they…..

    Of course I may be naive in my view, but then I know next to bugger all about what an MP does so couldn’t possibly make such an ill informed decision……

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12900834


  24. on March 30, 2011 at 5:45 pm SC16 (retired)

    We all know this. Will somebody wake up Ken Clarke and point out that prison does work? Oh, and point it out to Judge Judge and his colleagues as well.


  25. on March 30, 2011 at 5:58 pm Onion

    I think there’s a misapprehension on the part of the politicians as to exactly what they want prison to achieve. Will it miraculously turn around a hardened criminal mind? No, of course not. What it will do is stop people committing crimes whilst they’re locked up. I don’t think we should hope for anything else from it.

    For those younger, more impressionable minds at the start of a criminal career, then other things might be worth trying.

    I was called into custody the other day to help with one of our local scrotes who was getting charged with 2x robbery and PWITS and was likely to kick off. Rather to my surprise, instead of kicking off he burst into tears shouting, “you’re making a good man bad” before being gently pushed back into his cell. The worrying thing is that this PYO *actually believes* that this is true. Someone must have told him that his unstoppable robbing/burgling spree is someone else’s fault.

    On another note, I spent last night dealing with the aftermath of two horrendous incidents. A 13 year-old girl who fell to her death from a 4th floor window (1st on scene, talked to her as she died) and a 5 year-old child shot in the chest. I know – we all know – that we deal with these things so most people never have to, but it would be nice if the government and even our own bosses credited us with that occasionally.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 6:09 pm inspectorgadget

      Bad night. Very bad.

      Worth your pension to them now?

      Doubt it!


      • on March 31, 2011 at 9:20 am Deborah Parr

        That sounds a very bad night. Words fail me. Hope you get a hug and a kiss off someone nice


    • on March 30, 2011 at 8:57 pm tattyfalarr

      Locking criminals up protects the public. Simple as and end of. Should always be the priority and anything regarding the prisoner, their rights and families come secondary and only up for discussion after they’ve been locked up.

      “13 year-old girl …talked to her as she died” – Christ that hit home…having a little cry here…bless you. There is no amount of money in the world I wouldn’t pay (if I had it) for someone to do that for mine. Priceless.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 9:24 pm Minty

      Awful stuff. Hope the little girl recovers.

      Thoughts to you and everyone else that had to deal with these terrible incidents. I’d like to see those seeking to cut police pay and pensions walk a mile in your magnums.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 10:03 pm Somerset01

      Sounds like a rough one. But today you will put on the uniform and do it all again. Those that can, do.

      Those that cannot, leave no knowledge comments on the Daily Heil website.

      Respect and a raised beer glass to you.


      • on March 30, 2011 at 10:54 pm Minty

        What he said ^^^


      • on March 31, 2011 at 9:29 am Just a resource

        couldnt agree more


      • on March 31, 2011 at 12:29 pm Green then Blue

        Big respect, but don’t forget that not only are you expected to do it all again, you are expected to forget all about it. That way you can carry on and not feel agrieved by the shit that today throws at you.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 5:17 am Doxon of Dick Green

      Onion – much respect to you.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 9:17 am Metcountymounty

      Had to do that with an rtc victim but she was in her 20′s. Shit night all round mate, even worse with the shooting. A couple of mates were on the fingertip the next morning and the brief sounded bad enough as it is. Take care.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 1:30 pm JuliaM

      “A 13 year-old girl who fell to her death from a 4th floor window (1st on scene, talked to her as she died)…”

      I hope, for your sake, it wasn’t this case.

      Sounds like it’s going to be a mess when/if it gets to court.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 5:25 pm Metshite

      Sad to see that LD hasn’t changed that much since I was there then. I stuck it for 5 years in the 80′s then had to move before I went mad. Fair play to you and your colleagues. Now YOU lot do deserve a pay rise. You do twice the CADS we do a few miles west of you.


  26. on March 30, 2011 at 6:14 pm The Crunch

    The US are very tough on crime and have one of the biggest prison populations in the world, furthermore they are pretty much the only developed nation that still has the death penalty however I haven’t noticed a massive drop in crime.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 6:34 pm J T Fish

      Massive difference in numbers between US and UK though Crunch. Plus poverty is rife in the US.

      I’m afraid you comparing an insect with a Tyrannosaurus Rex!

      If the judiciary punished people with suitable terms, you would see a difference. The Channel Islands is a good example. Import and deal drugs and look at 15 yrs. Check their offending rates in comparison to before they upped their sentencing guidelines.

      There are other things that need sorting too like removal of sky tv for prisoners etc etc but the start is sentencing.

      I agree with sticking em on a reconditioned oil rig etc!


      • on March 30, 2011 at 9:36 pm Anon

        Mr. Fish

        A great example. Liverpool’s finest export Curtis “Cocky” Warren, weeks after release from a Dutch prison was arrested for his part in a cannabis importation into Jersey; he got 13 years, a sentence that would have had a decimal point between the numbers if he’s been dealt with on the mainland.

        http://www.jcpc.gov.uk/docs/JCPC_2009_0111_judgment.pdf

        He’s lost his latest appeal too.

        Not so cocky now eh?


        • on March 31, 2011 at 8:15 am Seamus

          As well as a likely lesser sentence, Warren et al would also probably have won their appeal if they were dealt with on the mainland.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 6:49 pm Ted

      “I haven’t noticed a massive drop in crime.”

      Perhaps not but low level disorder seems far lower. The USA of course has huge problems but compared to the UK it has many things right. Proper democracy including elected Police Chiefs and more importantly judges. Any judge who gave career criminals a slap on the wrist would soon be out a job.

      In 2009 I spent 80 days riding across the USA on a bike. I didn’t see a single drunk and I the only place I saw a couple of beggars was on an Indian Reservation. I spent much of my time camping in town parks and didn’t get any hassle from teenagers, anywhere. Try that in the UK!

      Granted I was travelling through small towns much of the time but even in downtown Detroit, Boston, and several other cities I passed through the Americans seem to be able to have a few drinks without it ending up in a massive vomit fest and assaults. There is a different attitude to alcohol there. THe UK has a problem.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 7:05 pm Doxon of Dick Green

      The biggest prison population could be because America has one of the biggest populations – percentages and all that.

      Not saying I agree with capital punishment per sae, but once they are put to death, there is no chance of them re-offending.


      • on March 30, 2011 at 10:15 pm Allan

        “The biggest prison population could be because America has one of the biggest populations – percentages and all that. ”

        They thought of that;

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison#Population_statistics


      • on March 31, 2011 at 7:00 pm The Crunch

        Just to clarify of course the US has a much larger population than the UK, however I’m talking in terms of percentages, in which case the US has the highest in the world.

        Another thing I’ll just leave here is that there is a positive correlation between the GINI coefficient of economic inequality and crime rates (apparently this is especially evident with homocides).


    • on March 30, 2011 at 8:44 pm Dawg

      Holland – tough on crime, long sentences are common, result – falling crime levels and falling prison populations. So much so that they rent prison space to the Belgians who are more like us judicially…


      • on March 30, 2011 at 11:49 pm Lumberjack

        Holland tough on crime? Not so sure about that. In the first place, Holland is the promised (developed) land for organized crime due to lenient sentencing for drug trafficking (2-5 yrs for significant amounts eg: Kilos), very weak forensic accounting capabilities from the policing side, anemic asset seizure policies, Holland’s ‘tax haven’ status and a general lax attitude. When it comes to violent crime 10-15 years tends to be a standard sentence length for murder – until 2006 the maximum length of sentence for any crime was 20 years, now raised to 30, though there is the possibility of a life sentence without parole in certain cases eg: serial killers. Few get a life sentence levied. I recall the gruesome case of a drugged-up maniac who sliced his girlfriend’s head off whilst parked at a petrol station – the jail term was 12 yrs. Drug couriers transporting amounts of up to several kgs of cocaine are routinely let go without charge at Schiphol Airport. In a uniquely Dutch perspective – a prison escape is not punished, with the idea being the facility has failed at its task. There was a recent brouhaha when it was revealed violent offenders for crimes up to and including rape and murder were being let off with community service or no punishment whatsoever due to congestion, clerical errors and dysfunction in the legal system. Holland is a criminal’s paradise!


      • on March 30, 2011 at 11:59 pm Lumberjack

        If it is the case that the prison population is falling, I’d hazard a guess its probably down to lenient sentencing & a lax system as opposed to successes with the Dutch judicial system. The Dutch are always keen for the opportunity to make a guilder wherever they can, so if they can rent prison space to neighbouring countries (likely at an inflated rate) this would strike me as a typical Dutch ‘practical’ cash-earning construct instead of evidence of any superior crime-fighting.


        • on March 31, 2011 at 8:41 pm Lumberjack

          Just to add: I have a lot of respect for the Dutch rank & file who soldier on having faced conditions similar to the UK for some years now eg: meddling and attempts at control from political ‘masters’ designed to humiliate & ‘put in one’s place’, significant budgetary cutbacks, low salaries for constables, general sense of crisis & low morale, demoralizing results and attitude from their CPS, regular abuse and physical violence from the public which goes lightly punished if at all etc.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 10:32 pm Teofillio Cubillas

      Have you ever been to the USA? If you keep out of the big city ghettos, street crime is virtually non-existent. No drunken scum lying in their pools of pish and vomit, no undercurrent of violence, no hoody-wearing gangs hanging about. I feel much safer walking about the southern towns that I visit than I do in the UK.


      • on March 31, 2011 at 7:50 am Andy Wilkinson

        Apples and oranges.

        The US is a much more spread-out place than the U of K – they’ve got the space to do it. The peaceful burbs and affluent areas can be miles from the decaying shiteholes.

        In the UK you can see such contrasts in adjoining streets.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 10:18 am GZoinker

      > I haven’t noticed a massive drop in crime.

      Compared with what?

      Have you not considered that things could be a _lot_ worse over there if it wasn’t for the death penalty?


    • on March 31, 2011 at 11:01 am Water Rat

      But they have extremes of wealth and poverty that do contribute towards acquisitive and violent crime. Some parts of American cities look like 3rd world African shanty towns, and have similar levels of disease and child mortality. The public school system is in the crapper, and many blue collar working families are getting steadily poorer. Even working people are dying of treatable illnesses because their health insurance is too expensive for them.

      But prison, and the ’3 strikes and your out’ policy has reduced crime so significantly in some states and counties, that police and prison officers have been made redundant!


  27. on March 30, 2011 at 6:14 pm Redgoat

    Still we could always have a few more links to fit PCSO’s!!

    Anyone? Anyone?


    • on March 30, 2011 at 6:51 pm careca

      What is it with you and PCSOs? Newsflash – few of them are worth getting excited about, and the ones that are you can be assured have been befriended by a PC already…..


    • on March 30, 2011 at 6:52 pm Pc PC

      Hope this works!


      • on March 30, 2011 at 7:17 pm Redgoat

        There must be some sick PC’s in Cambridgeshire lol


  28. on March 30, 2011 at 6:24 pm Aaron C Rescue

    Last week my local paper reported about a couple running a brothel. They had made £300k from it and were made to pay back £1, yes one English pound! The costs of investigating is never covered that is why we are broke, we never recoup our costs. After paying out to get them to court we even pay for a brief to get them off. Imagine if we were a company. We would produce a product that costs thousands to make and get back £25 when we sell it. We would also pay someone to try and prevent the customer having to pay at all! Welcome to police plc. And we wonder why we are having to cut costs!


    • on March 30, 2011 at 6:53 pm careca

      SOCPA surely??


  29. on March 30, 2011 at 6:33 pm Barney Rubble

    Not arsed where I am and wish others would grow up!!!!


    • on March 30, 2011 at 6:37 pm Cockney Copper

      1st to agree with Barney about not being arsed.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 6:39 pm Barney Rubble

      Oh sorry. Let’s be fair, this country is well and truly screwed. It’s ruled by non elected euro judges who tell us what we an and can’t do. Then back here in blighty, we’ve got MPs more interested in feathering their own nests than what is actually going on our streets.
      Then there’s the judges who are utterly shite and pathetic, and hand out sweets not sentences, when we bring the scum of the earth to their doors.
      Let’s be fair we’re getting sold down the swanny


      • on March 30, 2011 at 6:46 pm Barney Rubble

        (poops bloody iPhone)…. by all an sundry. Viva le revolution…… and lets hope that those that have crapped on us from every conceivable height get their come uppence.


  30. on March 30, 2011 at 6:37 pm IT Guy

    If the existing system in the courts doesn’t work then maybe .. just maybe elected Commissioners may be able to do something about it .. at least then the public can complain to someone that they can sack if they don’t sort it out .

    Oops sorry . fantasy world again.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 7:49 pm Stonehead

      Elected commissioners might sort it? Ha, bloody ha. It’s just another name for a professional politician, like councillor or MP. Elected MPs have hardly sorted anything of late. Oh yes, we can vote them out if they don’t sort things out and vote in a slightly different brand of snakeoil salesman. Sack Brown and his mates, put in Cameron and his mates. It’ll be the same with elected commissioners: you can change the colour of ties but the smell will give the game away. There will still be an odious sack of bullshit underneath.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 11:26 pm Mac

      You’re missing the point. The elected commisioner will only have jurisdiction over the police.
      They won’t be able to do a thing about court sentencing. Even Theresa May has no say over that, that’s all down to Ken Clarke. Typical lack of of ‘joined up-ness’, that could only be created by politicians.


  31. on March 30, 2011 at 6:38 pm Anonymous Panda

    IG, you should hook up with a few judges over a pint and have a good venting session. You really won’t believe it but you’re on very similar wavelengths. Except they don’t blame themselves, of course. They mostly blame the CPS. I would tend to agree.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 8:20 pm inspectorgadget

      Judges are usually OK, I was thinking of Magistrates.


      • on March 30, 2011 at 8:46 pm Will

        I know a (criminal) judge (he’s a relative of my wife), and he tells me that magistrates sentence more heavily than judges do.

        Is this something that you guys see any of?

        (Obviously it takes some careful comparison, because they tend to deal with different kinds of cases.)


        • on March 31, 2011 at 9:00 am bruce

          http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7997092/Revealed-not-a-single-burglar-gets-maximum-jail-sentence.html

          In case anyone missed it first and second times.


  32. on March 30, 2011 at 6:44 pm Aaron C Rescue

    http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/east-hampshire/brothel_pair_who_made_90_000_must_pay_just_1_1_2536888


    • on March 30, 2011 at 8:25 pm Greater Personchester Cop

      £1 poca order is standard for someone who has made money by crime but has no obvious assets which could be forfeited.

      Either they were very good at hiding the assets else they have pissed it all up the wall – shot it up their veins – etc etc.

      Many of our “customers” live for today and £50 in their hands is gone tomorrow. It goes on fast cars, women, drugs and booze ( as someone else said – the rest is wasted). They do not think of isas, savings, bonds, houses, investments etc – so you cannot order them to pay back what they don’t have.

      Lorraine scrubs up well though … or am I desperate?


    • on March 30, 2011 at 9:49 pm Anon

      But please note.

      Their ‘benefit’ was £80k and £10k respectively.

      They will go on certain intel systems and can be re-visited anytime in the future if their financial circumstances change, whether by a return to crime, a windfall from dear auntie Joan, a lottery win or (heaven forbid) actual honest endeavours.

      That sword hangs over them for life.

      Annnnnnnnd yes, looking at the associated comment from GPC, I probably would too.


      • on March 31, 2011 at 12:37 pm Green then Blue

        Maybe they just followed the wisdom of our MPs and made sure all their assets are in the name of their auntie’s, cousin’s, neighbours dog.


  33. on March 30, 2011 at 6:54 pm wmidplod

    Good post from onion.
    It is hard physically and mentally on the front line ( real one and not HMIC front line )as all response officers know , PRISON IS THERE TO GIVE THE PUBLIC A BREAK FROM PEOPLE WHO DON’T WANT TO BE REHABILITATED !!!!!
    It is so hard to get someone sent there,so if they actualy get a sentence then for gods sake , give it some deterrent value.

    But until red ken clarke goes…no chance methinks.


  34. on March 30, 2011 at 6:59 pm TheBinarySurfer

    What puzzles me, really genuinely puzzles me is why on earth we don’t have accountability for sentancing and bail; be it for judges or mags. Give them powers to do whatever they want and remove all guidelines, but introduce accountability.

    If a doctor (position of professional responsibility) kills a patient due to bad judgement there’s a hearing, and if negligence / clear stupidity proven, they are struck off or even imprisoned.

    If a driver (position of responsibility given by a driving license) kills someone they face consequences.

    If a police officer doesn’t follow procedure properly they face consequences (PACE etc).

    If the Accountant doing your taxes makes a mistake he pays for it via his professional indemnity insurance premiums going up or otherwise.

    You get the idea; in every other ‘responsible’ position there are consequences to getting it badly wrong. How come the families of the victims as per many of the cases mentioned in the past and above are not suing the judge directly for negligence.

    I can cite a case in my local area in the last 2 weeks; CPS, Probation, Police; judge acts against strong CPS, Probation and Police advice to the contrary. Reoffends within 24h, putting another innocent MoP in the hospital. HOW THE HELL IS THAT JUDGE NOT BEING SUED?!

    The Police are accountable. The CPS are accountable. The lawyers are accountable (ish). The prisons are accountable. The probation service is accountable. The judiciary are not. A chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link and in this case that link is pretty f*cking weak.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 8:12 pm Greater Personchester Cop

      “”HOW THE HELL IS THAT JUDGE NOT BEING SUED?! “”

      Often it is not the Judge who is at fault.

      Sentencing guidelines are issued by the Government. Stray too far from them and there is an appeal. We even have our own quango to ensure “compliance”.

      http://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/

      Now I don’t feel 12 months inside is an appropriate sentence for almost killing someone in a s20 woundong – especially when the victim requires emergency brain surgery and is out of work for 18 months+ – but I cannot blame the Judge who reading between the lines would have given much more.

      Unfortunately the Government can claim to be accountable to the electorate – but with a choice of only two and a half main parties and no real say or election on policy it is a pisspoor case of accountability.
      I can vote over the internet for poxy shows like “big brother” yet important concerns such as national policy is left to a party that claims to have a “mandate” despite the electorate having such a limited choice.


      • on March 30, 2011 at 8:22 pm inspectorgadget

        Funny how they manage to forget all about those guidelines when it’s a Cop in the box though eh?

        Sgt Mark Andrews (before being acquitted later) is a good example.


        • on March 30, 2011 at 8:37 pm Greater Personchester Cop

          I’ll give you that.

          We had a Cop given 14 days inside for slashing a drunk drivers car tyres on a petrol station forecourt to stop him returning and driving off.

          I don’t think he would have got that as a member of the public, or even as a barrister or MP.

          Was it really worth tying up a prison space for someone already out of a job … when the cell could have been used for a persistent burglar? thereby protecting us all.

          The law moves in mysterious ways


          • on March 30, 2011 at 10:06 pm PC Lightyear

            He shouldn’t even have been sacked let alone convicted! Pay for new tyres by all means but FFS!


          • on March 30, 2011 at 10:06 pm Angrymet

            You f**king what?

            14 days inside for ‘criminal damage’ seriously? For real?

            No way… You cannot be serious.

            Suppose he hadn’t and the drunk driver drove away and killed someone… and the PC was seen on the garage CCTV doing nothing to stop them.

            Bollocks to it. Nice back office job for me. I can’t be arsed.


          • on March 31, 2011 at 8:37 am R/T

            I am always reminded of the poor bastard trafpol in Northumbria who got 6.5 years for Death by Dangerous after he knocked down the lass crossing the street trying to catch up an ANPR hit. 6.5years!!!!!

            I always tell my “Post car assessment” guys to remember that if they are found guilty of death by dangerous / careless they WILL be locked up. What call is so important etc. Slow down kiddies.

            We have always been treated differently by the courts – mostly vastly unfairly. But there you go.


        • on March 30, 2011 at 8:40 pm Greater Personchester Cop

          Ps – if we are therefore suppose to be above reproach, pillars of the communit, subject to such stringent safeguards and penalties etc etc..get more of a punishment for the same crime than an MP .

          then why won’t they pay us what the owe us?


        • on March 30, 2011 at 11:24 pm TheBinarySurfer

          Totally agree with IG; they can and do bypass the guidelines or give the maximum term / punishment when suitably motivated.

          Having your balls personally in a vice (i.e. liability) if you ignore CPS, Police and Probation advice will provide ample motivation; you can always rely on people to act in their own self-interest.


        • on March 31, 2011 at 8:03 am Wig and Gown

          IG – No, that isn’t a good example. Sgt Andrews was convicted and sentenced within the sentencing guidelines.

          His subsequent acquittal on appeal had absolutely nothing to do with the guidelines. A differently constituted tribunal found him not guilty.


          • on March 31, 2011 at 9:26 am PC Lightyear

            So why does a first time offence of common assault by a man of previous good character warrant custody as a starting point?

            If the answer is ‘because he’s a cop’ then it proves how wrong and disgustingly warped the sentencing guidelines are.

            If they are only ‘guidelines’ then why not step outside them?


          • on March 31, 2011 at 10:35 am Wig and Gown

            He was charged with and convicted of ABH, not common assault.

            A short custodial sentence following a trial is entirely within the guidelines.


          • on March 31, 2011 at 10:57 am PC Lightyear

            Even so. I have never seen anyone get time for a minor ABH first offence. The answer is ‘because he’s a cop’ which is unacceptable and offensive


          • on March 31, 2011 at 11:40 am Wig and Gown

            PC Lightyear, just because you haven’t seen it, doesn’t mean (i) it doesn’t happen and (ii) it’s outside the guidelines.

            Assaulting a public servant is an aggravating feature so too is a committing an offence whilst serving in a public office. Ali Dizaei and several MP’s can attest to that.

            The problem is that what gets reported in the press is sentences that get the public excited and that are or maybe wrong.

            I prosecuted a woman of good character recently who punched another woman in the face, once. After a trial, she got an 11 month sentence of immediate imprisonment. Some Judges would have suspended that, this one didn’t. Both sentences are within the guidelines.

            The court reporter excitedly took details from me before sentence but wasn’t interested afterwards. He bluntly explained that unless someone isn’t sentenced to immediate imprisonment, nobody will pick up the story.

            I would like to see a website which has daily statistics of sentences handed out in the Crown Court. If a light was shone on the 99% of cases that the Daily Mail don’t / won’t report on, the public would have a better understanding of what the average sentences passed, is.


          • on March 31, 2011 at 8:53 pm PC Lightyear

            Well i) I would also like to see such a website brought in

            And

            ii) even I think 11 months for one punch is excessive!!


          • on March 31, 2011 at 9:18 pm Minty

            So surely if the scope of the guidelines is so vast, then they are not guidelines at all.

            As regards assualting public servants being viewed as an agg factor, I’d beg to differ. I hot thumped at work a few years ago. Nothing serious, just severe bruising. The CPS wouldn’t charge as my assailant had mental health issues (that developed a few minutes after his arrest, and before the gasping for breathe).


    • on March 31, 2011 at 12:48 pm Green then Blue

      Part of the problem seems to be that the guidelines are so piss poor. I was recently talking to a magistrate who gave an example of a hypothetical case. Everyone at the table gave a different sentencing result ranging fromconditional discharge to custodial sentence, only to be told we were all right as they all fell within the guidelines. What a farce.
      If you really want to see where the problems lie then look how many politicians come from a legal background. Blair, his wife, his best friends. still managed to produce laws with more loophole than a Swiss cheese.
      Another example of feathering your own nest


      • on March 31, 2011 at 1:10 pm Wig and Gown

        Rather than talking to a Magistrate, have a read of one of the sentencing guidelines:

        http://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/guidelines/guidelines-to-download.htm

        Whilst a particular offence might warrant anything from a conditional discharge to custody, you’ll see that once you take into account the facts of the case the range becomes much narrower.

        As for the point about lawyers producing defective legislation following that point to its logical conclusion, a non-lawyer would produce even worse legislation surely?


        • on March 31, 2011 at 1:50 pm response bobby

          Wig and gown, you are obviously an intelligent person, however correct me if I am wrong here, but you seem to be implyint that it tis not the guidelines that are at fault bit the mags/ judges in applying the guidelines fairly.

          If this is the case than there must be some accountability in the sentencing of offenders, would you agree?

          If yes then where and how does the accountability apply?

          If no the would you agree that this shows a worring arrogance within the judicary?

          You yourself have implied that a public servant needs accountability.
          How is this accountability scrutinised in the present?

          Do you agree that the judicary find it hard to relate to the devistation that persistant offenders have on an area / community or on individual lives due to their mostly privallidged upbringing?

          Do you yourself think it fair that a police officer should be dealt differently than a MOP in the eyes of the law? Or are we all equal in the eyes of the law?

          Please forgive me if my post offends your sensabilities or seems flippant in its content, however I am but just a lowly response bobby with 9 years of seeing, day in and day out a growing criminal underclass develop with what I have seen no regard for others materiallyor socially. This growing criminal underclass has been ( in my humble opinion) aided and abeted by a weak and liberal judiciary who are far removed from the day to day casual violence and utter disregard for the law and others these people have.

          Many thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to read my humble post.

          Yours forever in your shadow

          One of the many humble, hard working, demoralised bobbies of this once great country.


  35. on March 30, 2011 at 7:18 pm Don Esteban

    Singapore just doesn’t tolerate ANY type of crime Especially drugs and anti-social behaviour.

    If you have half the brains you are born with you don’t break ANY laws in Singapore, especially the drug ones.

    Woe betide anyone who does. Don’t break the law and I am told it is a beautiful place.

    Everybody I have spoken to that has been there agrees that it is a totally non-threatening safe place to visit and to live in.

    Maybe we should look at what they do there?


    • on March 31, 2011 at 9:22 am JuliaM

      Nope, Singapore is a paradise – I’d go back in a shot!


      • on March 31, 2011 at 11:02 am PC Lightyear

        Singapore is a paradise if you’re a rich member of the financial world or a tourist with money to spend.

        A close pal was an engineer for a number of years over there til recently, and it was definitely a case of money talks and right/wrong is negotiable


  36. on March 30, 2011 at 7:34 pm wmidplod

    I hope some Tory mp’s read this blog,they need to represent what some of us voted for and core values.
    Don’t shaft the public servants(not just old bill), most of them do a great job,they(and us)didn’t create this bankrupt situation.
    I am gutted that DC isn’t listening to reason because this leaves us with a situation where there is no credible alternative to vote for…Monster Raving party?????


    • on March 31, 2011 at 9:12 am bruce

      DC knows that. But one day the electorate might call his bluff. You remember the last euro elections?


  37. on March 30, 2011 at 7:35 pm wmidplod

    or judge dredd?


    • on March 30, 2011 at 8:03 pm soud1

      My hero!


  38. on March 30, 2011 at 7:45 pm pj21

    //When did we lose our ability to deal very firmly with absolute nonsense and back up our cops out there trying to do their job.//

    Possibly when we ran out of prison places?

    Not quite sure why we don’t simply build more prisons, but I’m obviously missing something.


  39. on March 30, 2011 at 8:11 pm Mr Natural

    Don Corleone: Why did you go to the police? Why didn’t you come to me first?


  40. on March 30, 2011 at 8:15 pm soud1

    The Royal Ulster Constabulary Full-Time Reserve finish tomorrow with the remaining 270 leaving the job.

    They have paid a heavy price with forty-nine killed on duty and five off duty,not counting the hundreds injured mentally and physically,of which I can include my dad.

    Never forgotten and thanks to them many people are alive today,should it have been station security,MSU,response or neighbourhood,they’ve all played their part.

    I can honestly say without doubt that the best peeler’s I’ve ever had the pleasure of working with have been three FTR guy’s,great police men without a doubt.
    The current lot of SMT and a lot of others aren’t fit to lace your boots.

    So enjoy whatever retirement you may have got planned guys/girls and take care.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 8:25 pm inspectorgadget

      Yes indeed.

      I have served with some RUC FTR and found them to be a great bunch of old boys.

      Best of luck to them all. More Govt treachery.


  41. on March 30, 2011 at 8:37 pm MPS asnt

    It’s an easy risk and reward question for the repeat criminals to ask themselves. ‘Shall I risk getting a ‘suspended 12 month sentence’ for dealing my £50k of class ‘A’ ? for example is a simple decision to make. I feel we will see more stories like today’s. Why would the scrotes be worried? Just look at the rap sheets for many a PPO and consider if they give getting punished a second thought. It will only get worse and when the level of poverty increases so will our workload. Hope these blogs are being noted by influential people who are willing to ask some difficult questions.


  42. on March 30, 2011 at 9:01 pm Greater Personchester Cop

    Gadget … you psychic….

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/mar/30/troops-run-prisons-strike


    • on March 31, 2011 at 10:57 am inspectorgadget

      Not psychic, just well informed.

      Keep it here.


  43. on March 30, 2011 at 9:15 pm rex_imperator

    As a Phoney beak (so called) I very much welcomed the move to structured sentencing some years ago. The concept was sound and designed to avoid the whims of the beak on the day determining what sentence should be appropriate. But we have perhaps gone too far. The Sentencing Guidelines box offences too severely into categories. In accordance with our traditions, where an offence doesn’t make a particular grade, the case is sentenced on the lower threshold. This can make a mockery of the system and brings about the results of which IG regularly complains. And magistrates and judges alike don’t like this. The probation PSRs always (I can think of one exception in 20 years) claim that their service can do something to deal with the violent thief, the wife beater or the hoodlum. My dogs learned that some behaviours work and some don’t. probation seems not to know this. I like the suggestion that we are performance monitored – tricky to measure for a voluntary magistrate, but doable. As to sentencing cops, the reality is (for better or worse) that society expects a higher standard and therefore in criminal sentecing, being a cop is a de facto (if not de jure) aggravating feature.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 10:34 pm PC Lightyear

      Thanks for that Rex, explains things more clearly.

      The last bit re sentencing cops however is a disgrace. Society’s expectations must change. Or start sentencing all public figures eg MPs, Lawyers, civil servants, MPs, Doctors, MPs, Judges, MPs, Taxi Drivers, Bus Drivers and MPs as harshly as police. After all, society expects more from them too.


      • on March 30, 2011 at 11:40 pm tattyfalarr

        Hear hear. Frankly I think it should go further. We expect a hell of a lot more from those who make the laws than those who uphold or apply them.

        They should be dealt with the most severely.


  44. on March 30, 2011 at 9:30 pm townpoliceclauses

    Here’s the thing… people make mistakes and having been told of their mistakes they can learn from them and not make them again. Doing the same thing wrong twice is no longer a mistake it is deliberate wrongdoing.

    Would you agree that
    1. Domestic burglary is never the first crime anybody commits.
    2. Even if it’s the first crime they get convicted of it’s never the first they have committed. Nobody starts with burglary.
    3. House burglary is one thing every home owner dreads.
    4. Everyone has the right to feel safe in their home.

    So similar to oliversarmy2202 remote island idea. Here’s what I would do.
    1. Publicise for 12 months in schools, prisons on TV and radio that domestic burglary will no longer be tolerated. other people’s homes are a NO GO AREA. Set a date.
    2. After the cut off date anyone convicted of burglary in a dwelling gets a mandatory 10 year sentence, no if’s no buts.

    You can’t accidentally fall into someone’s house, you can’t make a mistake and climb through somebody’s window or kick their door down. It can’t happen by accident and crime doesn’t start with burglary.

    Result. Criminals WILL NOT risk a 10 stretch for what can be gained from a burglary, they aint stupid (well they are but not in this way) They may go and commit other crimes but they wont be in your home and we can police those by other means and everybody will be able to feel safe in their own house.
    An Englishman’s home will once more become his castle.

    Now let’s hear the arguments against.

    NB For Englishman read also Englishwoman
    NB also. Other ethnic groups are entitled to castles also.
    NB more. Persons of all strands of diversity are included in all parts of this post. Nobody is excluded and everybody matters.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 10:02 pm MPS (not) Probie

      First to wholeheartedly agree.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 11:43 pm tattyfalarr

      I’d have also liked something along the lines of “use of a baseball bat perfectly acceptable when in defence of your home/children” but ok…I’ll go along with what you say.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 6:40 pm bruce

      That sounds good TPC. And when it’s up and seen to be working, can the system move on to include (say) driving without insurance? Or maybe we could have a poll?


  45. on March 30, 2011 at 9:45 pm Mjolinir

    Sorry to break into the current ‘discussion’ – Talking with a mate (MoP) about Saturday’s events, he raised the subject of the orange tabard ‘Legal Observers’.

    What rights/responsibilities did they have ?

    Did it make any difference when they were ‘observing’ the breakaway action (Unc**t & Blac bloc &C)?

    I posted earlier about one inside the kettle at F&M who seemed to be pushing into the scrimmage where Officers were trying to separate those they wanted to arrest.


    • on March 30, 2011 at 11:50 pm Tang0

      None.
      (I suspect that the 7 bailed from F+M were legal advisers.)

      Here’s some nonsense website about them:
      http://networkforpolicemonitoring.org.uk/?page_id=97


  46. on March 30, 2011 at 10:59 pm Minty

    I can tell you the exact date the rot truly set in… 1st May 1997. Only I don’t we will ever recover from it.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 12:07 am Shafted

      This relates to the day the rot set in.

      http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/deborah-orr/closing-ranks-over-the-murder-of-a-colleague-571768.html


      • on March 31, 2011 at 10:33 pm PC Lightyear

        Ive read that before, and saw the documentary, and have met and worked with some of the officers who were there on the day, and met Mr Silcott.

        Lets just say my personal opinion of him is….. he’s a bit weird


  47. on March 30, 2011 at 11:05 pm Lumberjack

    A mere 11? Dang!
    Pressing too many wild flowers & losing the edge.


  48. on March 31, 2011 at 12:27 am Tang0

    Any truth to the rumour that the bankers were leaning out of windows waving wads of notes at the marchers (and incidentally us) on Saturday?
    I’ve heard 3rd hand rumours of shouts of “We’ve got your money” too.

    Please tell me it’s bollocks – not seen it reported anywhere even on the most lefty blogs.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 8:19 am MarkMyWords

      This happened at a demo by NHS Nurses and Doctors earlier in March http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/03/20/exclusive-city-banker-sacked-after-taunting-nhs-staff-with-10-note-115875-23001700/


      • on March 31, 2011 at 9:39 am Minty

        What an utter prize tosser. Oh and an unemployed one at that.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 9:47 am PC Lightyear

      It happened at G20, dunno about Sat.


  49. on March 31, 2011 at 2:55 am Lance Manley- former STAB PROOF SCARECROW

    Please keep us informed as to what Billy’s sentence is.


  50. on March 31, 2011 at 3:45 am Watchdog

    I have a very dim view of Mags courts. I once summonsed a chap for driving otherwise than in accordance as PNC showed that he didn’t have a licence. DVLA confirmed this and despite swearing blind that he did have one, he was never able to produce it. He’d given false details at the roadside (hence his arrest) and when asked for his current address he was equally evasive. It came to the point that in interview I’d be asking for his current address, he’d give me one and we’d have a break while a unit from that area was dispatched to check out the address. When it was found to be bogus we’d go back into interview and I’d get the usual…”Oh sorry, that’s just an address I use for business purposes” or “Ah, yeah….That’s a mates address where I occassionally stay”. After 3 dodgy addresses, we finally tied him down to a caravan on a farm-yard. I thought the court hearing was going to be just a formality, especially when I read out the transcript of the interview which clearly showed that he was talking bollocks for most of the time. Anyway, despite his deceipt, the fact that DVLA had given a statement showing that he had no licence and his inability to produce the one which he claimed that he did have, the court found him not guilty. Their reasoning…He’d previously been convicted of drink driving but had never been charged with driving otherwise than in accordance so in the Mags eyes, he must be telling the truth and the rest of us were wrong. They effectively gave him free reign to continue driving without ever having to sit and pass a test. What do you have to do these days???


    • on March 31, 2011 at 7:48 am Taffy

      Reminds me of the time I was recalled from holiday in Wales to give evidence at mags for…..wait for it…..a red ats fpn which the cps didn’t warn me for as they assumed I’d be s9′d….
      So after the 4 hour drive, which didn’t get me the right to have my case heard first so I could get home incidentally, I finally got into the box and confirmed that I was driving directly behind the vehicle,with enough distance for him to stop, when he approached and failed to even slow for a red pedex that had been so for some time. Found not guilty as it was….my word against the minicab defendant! Single patrol anyone? Unfortunately I was still a probationar and a little scared of making my views known(this is back when my heart always started to race at mags court,whilst I was still in awe and respect of them)


      • on March 31, 2011 at 8:04 am MPS (not) Probie

        How quickly that passes!


      • on March 31, 2011 at 10:33 am SC16 (retired)

        Hmm.. my first arrest, as a 20-year old Special (for assault on police in a roughhouse after a footy match, but charged as s5 POA) was almost my last because the magistrates dismissed the case. I was so shocked that I nearly gave up here and then. Fortunately, I didn’t resign and every arrest after that led to a conviction. It took me a long time to get used to the fact that, no matter how honest I may be, there will always be somebody who doesn’t believe me. Pity it had to be somebody who was supposed to uphold the law, though.


  51. on March 31, 2011 at 7:35 am Too Tired

    Gadget congratulations to your team for getting the CPS to charge. Where I’m from I guarantee he would have been bailed to see if any meaningful enquiries could have been made by the passing space shuttle or whether we’ve obtained a statement from the passing fox he drove past.
    As for Court, I expect triple listing, no hearing for at least a year by which time Ken Clarke will pay him for turning up.


  52. on March 31, 2011 at 7:56 am Mjolinir

    Thanks @Tang0

    //While you are wearing a legal observer bib, you are a legal observer, not an activist. You should not to participate actively in the protest by holding banners, chanting, wearing stickers etc. This does not mean you are neutral – you are there to support protesters and you only need gather evidence which will help them, not the police.//

    The bit about “Essential equipment” says it all really -//Camera – can be useful, but care needs to be taken to avoid taking incriminating pictures
    Video camera – this is risky, as it is difficult to be really in control of what you film. Police may also seize the footage if they think it contains evidence.//


  53. on March 31, 2011 at 8:19 am anglichan

    The debauching of the currency coupled with the breakdown of morale of the citizens. You have to hand it to the ‘left’-it’s not as if it’s been a secret plan.

    ‘[The] Frankfurt School believed that as long as an individual had the belief that his divine gift of reason could solve the problems facing society, then that society would never reach the state of hopelessness and alienation that they considered necessary to provoke socialist revolution.

    Their task, therefore, was as swiftly as possible to undermine the Judaeo-Christian legacy. To do this they called for the most negative destructive criticism possible of every sphere of life which would be designed to de-stabilize society and bring down what they saw as the ‘oppressive’ order.

    Their policies, they hoped, would spread like a virus—‘continuing the work of the Western Marxists by other means’ as one of their members noted.

    To further the advance of their ‘quiet’ cultural revolution – but giving us no ideas about their plans for the future – the School recommended (among other things):

    1. The creation of racism offences.
    2. Continual change to create confusion
    3. The teaching of sex and homosexuality to children
    4. The undermining of schools’ and teachers’ authority
    5. Huge immigration to destroy identity.
    6. The promotion of excessive drinking
    7. Emptying of churches
    8. An unreliable legal system with bias against victims of crime
    9. Dependency on the state or state benefits
    10. Control and dumbing down of media
    11. Encouraging the breakdown of the family’
    http://www.hellenesonline.com/go/2010/03/the-frankfurt-school-conspiracy-to-corrupt/


    • on March 31, 2011 at 11:07 am thespecialone

      Well they are making a dam good go of it aren’t they these bloody marxists. Interesting read.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 12:44 pm Pocket Notebook Boy

      That is bloody frightening.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 2:00 pm tattyfalarr

      “the belief that his divine gift of reason could solve the problems facing society”

      Spot on. People’s power of reason has been used against them for a long time now and the entire population is being pushed to see just how much it will take.


  54. on March 31, 2011 at 8:39 am pcsouthwest

    Bottom line is that prison needs to be a deterrent and not a bit of a jolly for the scum bags. Certainly the prisoners I deal with regularly tell me “Prison is easy, I don’t mind prison”.
    If it was my choice I would have them breaking up rocks or working in chain gangs.
    All down to namby pamby, wishy washy, human rights nonsense.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 1:10 pm Green then Blue

      How about using them to fill in for all the cuts we are being told we have no option about. Litter picking, civil building works etc.
      Alternatively have them in teams;
      Team 1 breaks very big rocks into very small rocks.
      Team 2 concretes very small rocks into very big rocks.

      The idea of prisoners serving no pupose just reinforces the selfish mentality that society owes them and they are entitled to anything they want. This is usually the cause of their offending in the first place.


  55. on March 31, 2011 at 9:03 am Redgoat

    Report out today into the Ford prison riot.
    Drugs freely available.
    Inmates regularly drunk.
    Bosses aware of the problems sometime beforehand.

    No doubt the head in the SMT sand mentality kicked in and then when the wheel comes off they will trumpet the ‘lessons learnt.’


  56. on March 31, 2011 at 9:08 am ACPO Stink Tank

    well… I have to say, thats a damn good argument.

    But one problem at a time eh.

    How do you go about sorting ‘this’ problem? It seems the only way is for someone at the top to bring pressure to bear on this section of the civil service.


  57. on March 31, 2011 at 9:24 am Red Admiral

    Anyone know why there are sentencing guidelines at all? Surely Parliament sets the maximum and then mags/judges should be left to get on with it.


  58. on March 31, 2011 at 9:34 am pliney

    If there were no guidelines then judges might judge people and sentence them to a decent time in prison. Cant have that


  59. on March 31, 2011 at 9:57 am Just a resource

    I stopped giving a shit about 5 years ago, when a punter i locked up for 4 aggravated burglaries, theft of a motor vehicle, drink driving and assault pc x2, was given 3 years at crown. I stop checked him on the street 10 months later.
    Any other country in the world, he’d barely be a fraction into his proper sentence.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 12:14 pm inspectorgadget

      I remember stop-checking a youth who I had nicked for Agg TWOC, failing to stop and no licence etc when I asked him what he had received in Court (I wasn’t required due to guilty plea/youth court etc) he couldn’t remember.

      That’s how soft and pointless the sentence was.

      He actually couldn’t remember, and wasn’t at all bothered.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 10:41 pm PC Lightyear

      Nicked a lad for theft of a plasma screen from Comet a few years back – he simply picked it up and walked straight out with it, was (eventually) stopped by security in the car park – bit of a roll around, bit a security guard, we turned up, he tried to bite me (silly boy – ‘dynamic and forceful’ officer safety techniques used) nicked, charged, court the following morning as he has *never* I say again *NEVER* turned up at court when given bail…….

      Nicked him the following day at the start of late turn for stealing batteries from Dixons….

      “So what did you get at court yesterday then?”

      reply

      “F*ck knows, I wasnt listening”


  60. on March 31, 2011 at 10:02 am Bewildered

    Can anybody from Norfolk confirm rumours I keep hearing that some sergeants are going to be demoted to PC as they want to cut back on their numbers? Apparently they will lose their stripes but keep their sergeants’ pay. Surely not?


    • on March 31, 2011 at 10:51 am PC Lightyear

      Sounds pointless


    • on March 31, 2011 at 10:53 am careca

      That makes absolutely no sense. It must be bullshit.


      • on March 31, 2011 at 6:46 pm Goffa!

        That makes absolutely no sense and thus is almost ceratinly true.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 11:03 am Howard

      It may be similar to the case of Warwickshire Police. They have put togther a ‘plan’ for the future of the force in the face of the cuts. This plan allows them to see exactly how many police officers they are allowed to have.

      The plan shows that they have “too many(!?)” police officers in certain ranks and positions.

      As well as offering demotion as a solution they are also kicking out the civilians and putting the police officers in their places. So, back to front-office desk Sgts and an Inspector in the admin office.

      This is of course only possible because police officers cannot be made redundant, whilst the civvies can.

      If Windsor has his way with his 2nd report, that will probably change.

      If they want to treat you like the civilian staff, then you should have the same rights. Full industrial rights and proper, professional representation at pay-rise discussions.


      • on March 31, 2011 at 11:05 am Howard

        “Putting police officers in their places..”

        Sorry, having re-read that I can see it sounds a little wrong. I meant, putting the police officers in the place of the civilian staff roles of course!


    • on March 31, 2011 at 12:11 pm inspectorgadget

      I have heard that some forces are about to do this with Chief Inspectors being reverted to Inspector etc.

      I think we should be mindful of rumours getting out of control, but with the Tory govt who have clearly declared war on police officers, nothing is off limits.


      • on March 31, 2011 at 10:44 pm PC Lightyear

        So they will end up making the Ch Insp do some bloody work then? Bonus!


  61. on March 31, 2011 at 11:09 am PC Angry

    Just been announced by Clarke that Birmingham Jail has been privatised – This is going to end very badly.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 11:38 am Anonymous Panda

      G4S? What could possibly go wrong…


      • on March 31, 2011 at 1:06 pm MarkMyWords

        What indeed! http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-olympics/article-23937044-olympic-security-guard-held-over-explosives-and-drugs.do


  62. on March 31, 2011 at 11:55 am Minty

    The nice buttons incident us just the start… Storm in a d cup regarding a new bakery called “nice baps”

    Some people need to get a life..


    • on March 31, 2011 at 12:15 pm pj21

      http://www.thecomet.net/news/village_s_nice_baps_comes_under_fire_1_847185

      “So I tried to explain it that I do small baps and big baps and they’re nice and firm.”

      Brilliant!


      • on March 31, 2011 at 12:56 pm No Duff

        Oh no!!

        Beaver Tool Hires world famous sign is in trouble then too!!

        http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7207/trimyourbush.jpg


      • on March 31, 2011 at 1:11 pm Minty

        I know, pure class if you ask me!!


        • on March 31, 2011 at 1:26 pm JuliaM

          I’m going to that village to open a combined butchers/greengrocers, right opposite.

          I’m going to call it ‘Meat ‘n Two Veg’…


          • on March 31, 2011 at 2:30 pm Doxon of Dick Green

            JuliaM – LOL ;0)


          • on March 31, 2011 at 5:47 pm Metshite

            If we continue at this rate we’ll have to ban all ‘Carry On’ films retrospectively.


          • on March 31, 2011 at 9:29 pm Minty

            I think in the name of gender equality a bakery called “nice buns” needs to be opened!


          • on March 31, 2011 at 10:46 pm PC Lightyear

            Not much of a greengrocers if you only sell 2 veg!


    • on April 4, 2011 at 3:46 pm Henry Brubaker

      There was a hand car wash place near where I live that claimed to give ‘The best hand job in xxxxx’

      Those hand car washes seem an excellent place for criminals to launder money. Not being a copper I wouldn’t know of course but the one near my house (not the hand job place) seems to be run by a burly gentleman in a very expensive car with a few hoodies in tow. Curious.


  63. on March 31, 2011 at 12:02 pm Mark

    Just heard that Home Sec accepts all Winsor Recs from Part 1 report and urges Police Neg Board to consider them in April. Wants negotiations complete by july!!


    • on March 31, 2011 at 10:48 pm PC Lightyear

      Hoorah, Im sure we’ll have a decision from the european court on our right to industrial action by then.

      Interestingly, the Prison Officers’ Assoc will be balloting on strike action even though it’s illegal for them.

      ….. cool


  64. on March 31, 2011 at 12:16 pm Green then Blue

    Sorry, Crunch but it looks like it’s your parade that’s getting wet. I’ve had people openly admit that they knew they would get caught but were not bothered.
    The only deterent to any crime are the repercussions, whether they be finacial, liberty or moral. Once there is no disadvatage to complying with societys rules and only gain then why would anyone bother.
    How about a return to the outlaw system. Break the law enough times and you lose societies benefits.
    Council house, not any more. Benefits, not any more. Extra payments because little Brittany Chardonnay has behaviour issues, don’t think so.

    On a seperate note has anyone else noticed how when estimates show approximately 5% of people suffer from ADHD it seems to affect 95% of scrotes.
    Coincidence then check out the link;
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12359070


  65. on March 31, 2011 at 12:35 pm just saying

    I often wonder what would happen if I was attacked and ended up dead or disabled. How long would that person get? If they were, say, 21 what age would they be when they got out? 25? 28?

    It seems like the magic words are: “Your honour my client deeply regrets the events of that night, of which he has no recollection due to the influence of drink and drugs. However, I would point out that my client’s mental state at the time was affected by the recent death of his father and his partner ending their relationship. Despite my client’s considerable record I would also like the court to consider that he has pleaded guilty to assault and given that he is now reconciled with the mother of his child and is looking to obtain employment I would question the benefit of a long custodial sentence.”

    How about this example of sentencing from Scotland…

    April 09: Rapes a 17 year old schoolgirl walking home in Paisley. May 09: Attempts to rape a 16 year old girl in Renfrew. Drags her into bushes, she is rescued when a taxi driver hears her screaming. He escapes, stealing her mobile phone and iPod. June 09: Attacks 18 year old girl in Paisley. Her friends hear her screams, he runs off and she escapes. Later the same day he attacks 33 year old woman who asks him for directions while cycling. He punches her, grabs her by the throat, drags her into woods, ties her up with her own trousers and rapes her. He also steals her camera and phone.

    Admits two counts of rape, two of attempted rape. Judge describes it as “the most atrocious form of criminality and abuse of the most serious form imaginable. He is detained indefinitely but will be able to apply for parole after six and a half years, backdated to the date of his arrest in June 2009. So…about four and a half years then. When he will be about 38. But he will be on the register and monitored for life so that’s OK then.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-12860157

    Why are we so scared to give people long sentences? Why is this man to be allowed to apply for parole in a few years? Does anybody really think it would be appropriate for him to be out in that time, even if he was judged to no longer be a danger? Four lives ruined (actually, I’m sure it’s a lot more than that) and we send him away for six and a half years, then we’ll talk about whether he should get back out?

    I don’t get it.


  66. on March 31, 2011 at 12:44 pm No Duff

    Unrelated but equally shocking news (well, I thinks so)..

    The Met have opened recruitment for 1,000 new PCs, offered to existing Specials in the Met.

    Now, you would think that due to the initial training (from what I understand, 20ish days) and “street duties” could probably knock a couple of weeks from the new PC 23 weeks course, you know the basic stuff.

    Don’t be silly!!

    Those successful will have to complete the PLC course, ONE DAY A WEEK for 16 weeks (unpaid) then a 3 week course at Hendon (still unpaid), with the “possibility” of being offered position as PC after that.

    Looks like some barely trained probbies coming your way Metroplians. Your tutors (or however you work it, down here noobs have a tutor on shift for 6 weeks) are going to have fun.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 1:00 pm Mjolinir

      Hmmm – Existing Specials being required to take 16 days and then 3 weeks off jobs- on the off-chance that they MIGHT get taken on (and with hopes that Bu**ering about over availability for five months doesn’t P*** off existing employer?)


    • on March 31, 2011 at 4:51 pm Ranter

      Aaaaaah the future’s bright….the future’s…..oh what the hell, just how much training do you need these days to stand there and be abused, injured and generally vilified whilst not nicking anyone?

      Apologies – but it really is going to ratshit?


      • on March 31, 2011 at 5:51 pm Metshite

        Ahhh Ranter!!! I hear your old ‘mate’ Ali Dizaei is hopeful of having his conviction quashed due to the main witness allegedly telling a few unrelated porkies. Deep joy. Will we ever get rid of the fucker?


        • on March 31, 2011 at 7:28 pm Ranter

          I’ll be amazed, so the witness told some porkies as you say UNRELATED to the conviction and there’s the FME’s evidence, the 2 PC’s, the custody officer. BAstard – but NO we’ll never be rid of this piece of human excrement


          • on March 31, 2011 at 8:04 pm Greater Personchester Cop

            He’s like one of those lurkers in the pan…

            No matter how many times you flush – he pops back up again.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 10:54 pm PC Lightyear

      EXTREEEEEEEMELY pissed off with this new recruitment bullsh:t

      Some of the best coppers I know – certainly the best you want by your side in a ruck – are ex-military. How the fark will they be able to join from the Army etc if they have to be specials or WOFTAMs for a year first


  67. on March 31, 2011 at 12:52 pm Mjolinir

    @Justsaying – McDonald // He cannot apply for parole until he has served six years and four months.// Only then can any decision be made.

    What are the odds that – having committed this series of offences – someone would be motivated to KILL their victims in an attempt to avoid conviction?


    • on March 31, 2011 at 2:04 pm tattyfalarr

      Conversely..What are the odds someone normally completely law-abiding will be motivated to kill their attacker than see them walk free from court ?


  68. on March 31, 2011 at 1:32 pm JuliaM

    It looks like Lee Jasper is agitating for another Broadwater Farm to me:

    “As Commissioner Godwin answered to members questions, including Assembly Member Val Shawcross, the public started to heckle and shout questioning why Detective Constable Stuart Hobkirk told a judge in court earlier this week the musician had stabbed himself in front of officers at his Warlingham home on March 15.

    Deputy Mayor of London for Policing Kit Malthouse tried to intervene and asked for order, but the public continued to chant, at which point Mr Malthouse interrupted the meeting and left the chamber followed by other members.

    The public started chanting “No justice, no peace” as they left the chamber and building.

    Speaking outside City Hall after the meeting, social justice campaigner Lee Jasper said: “Boris, the City, the commissioners, the IPCC, they had better be aware that this is the community at boiling point and we are ready to take action. We are back to the 80s. This is uprising.”…”


    • on March 31, 2011 at 3:13 pm Ranter

      Lee Jasper, a complete failure as anything other than a discredited, dishonest criminal or as many call him T.C Jasper! he’s lucky he’s not behind bars.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 3:19 pm Ex Chief Inspector

      And this is the problem. Jasper is a professional agitator who can be guaranteed to turn up and hijack any cause and then dump the family once he has achieved his aim, which is publicity for Jasper. I wonder how long before Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton turn up? The thing with these people is that they are persistent and will keep going until they get the result they want. I await the Guardian expose of the Met Police murder gangs that stalk the capital.
      Still, ‘No Justice, No peace’ very 80′s retro don’t you think?


      • on March 31, 2011 at 3:49 pm Ranter

        Very ‘retro’ indeed – and a great shame that these race-mongers still get an audience, albeit perhaps not as big as it would have been ‘back in the day’ as can be seen by the reaction to Jackson and Sharpton these days in the US (as far as I am aware).

        “…I await the Guardian expose of the Met Police murder gangs that stalk the capital…” I’m sure the easily suggestible and terminally paranoid believe this to be true! In Jasper’s case it is a shame it isn’t. A nasty, vicious, dishonest shit-stirrer of the highest order.


        • on March 31, 2011 at 3:59 pm SC16 (retired)

          Yup, which numpty reporting for which rag will be the first to report ex-CI’s comment as fact?


    • on March 31, 2011 at 4:36 pm Shafted

      Uprising my arse! More like a group of thugs kicking off because they don`t like being stood up to by the Police. But no doubt those who do stand up to these thugs, would still be undermined by their gutless senior management.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 10:58 pm PC Lightyear

      Lee Jasper.

      waste of human DNA


  69. on March 31, 2011 at 1:39 pm Elvis

    Slightly off topic but it made me think when i saw it on another site:-

    The Urine Test (This was written by a rig worker in the North Sea – What he says makes a lot of sense!)

    I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes those taxes as it sees fit.

    In order to earn that pay cheque, I work on a rig for a drilling contractor. I am required to pass a random urine test for drugs and alcohol, with which I have no problem.
    What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don’t have to pass a urine test.

    Shouldn’t one have to pass a urine test to get a benefits cheque because I have to pass one to earn it for them?
    Please understand that I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet.
    I do on the other hand have a problem with helping someone sit on their arse , drinking booze, smoking dope and generally taking all kinds of drugs.
    Could you imagine how much money the government would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a benefits cheque?

    Please pass this along if you agree or simply delete it if you don’t.

    Hope you will pass it along though, because something has to change in the UK, and soon!


    • on March 31, 2011 at 5:55 pm RETURN TO SENDER

      urinesane !


  70. on March 31, 2011 at 2:12 pm tattyfalarr

    And so it begins…

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371927/Kenneth-Clarke-Fears-mass-prison-officer-strike-3-jails-privatised.html

    From the article: POA general secretary Steve Gillan said: ‘This is a disgraceful decision which is politically driven and morally repulsive.

    ‘I condemn the previous Labour government and the Coalition for imposing this on loyal public sector workers.

    ‘We will not make a knee-jerk reaction. We will study what we can do and take direction from our members, but we will not rule out industrial action.”

    Mr Gillan said he believed prison officers could embark on certain types of action even though striking has been made illegal.

    ‘This is the wrong decision and politicians should hang their heads in shame. They are saying it is OK for shareholders to make a profit out of incarcerating prisoners.

    ‘What will be next, I wonder – privatising the police?’


    • on March 31, 2011 at 3:37 pm inspectorgadget

      You heard it here first:

      http://inspectorgadget.wordpress.com/2011/03/29/police-to-be-deployed-in-prisons-within-a-week/


    • on March 31, 2011 at 4:49 pm tattyfalarr

      Out of curiosity…what garage tat could we sell ?


      • on March 31, 2011 at 6:50 pm SC16 (retired)

        Obviously not much if Aircraft Carriers (even one recently refitted and never subsequently used) only fetch £2m each. We could try putting Ken Clarke on e-bay.


      • on March 31, 2011 at 8:08 pm Greater Personchester Cop

        Forester … Re : “gets their MP to wear whatever they want and do what they want for a day”

        Enough of our MPs have been bought already by business, cosortiums and special interest groups.


        • on March 31, 2011 at 11:01 pm PC Lightyear

          How about making them wear a suit of armour and go for a swim in the thames


    • on March 31, 2011 at 6:15 pm TheBinarySurfer

      Yes; I give it a maximum of 5 years before the first ‘pilot’ privatisation is tried out on a police force in the UK.

      Prisons will likely be turned over all bar the high-security ones within the next 3-4 by my thinking.


      • on April 1, 2011 at 12:36 am PC Lightyear

        SNT sponsorship of cars anyone?

        Makes it most awkward to stick their drivers on for driving whilst using a mobile phone – i was so torn (was i bollox)

        But every driver I stopped from the company that sponsored our cars expected to be let off – most disappointed with my lack of sympathy they were.

        Again, more erosion of our independence and neutrality


  71. on March 31, 2011 at 3:59 pm Arphamoe

    Just read the Federation response to the Ministerial announcement on Winsor! It includes the statement.
    Is that a declaration of war??


    • on March 31, 2011 at 5:04 pm Betty Swollox

      Like many other fully paid up members of the Fed, I haven’t heard anything from my local lot, other than the usual monthly 10% off entrance to Drayton Manor & Legoland. Well worth the twenty quid each month. [not]

      Is there an online link for this?


      • on March 31, 2011 at 5:06 pm inspectorgadget

        If you all send me £20 a month I’ll write a Blog, airing our grievances to over 5 million people, which is widely quoted in the media.

        Oh wait……


        • on March 31, 2011 at 5:21 pm ClanceyWiggum

          Chuck in a legal rep for my next spurious compliant and I’m sold.


          • on March 31, 2011 at 5:25 pm ClanceyWiggum

            Bloody iPod predictive word thingy….should read complaint!!!


          • on March 31, 2011 at 5:34 pm inspectorgadget

            Here is your legal advice for ALL eventualities:

            Go ‘no comment’

            (Liberally sprinkle with the phrase ‘charge me or release me copper’ and things like that)

            There. Free and the same as the Fed will give you.


      • on March 31, 2011 at 5:22 pm Arphamoe

        Its on the Federation website home page http://www.polfed.org

        Its the last entry datewise (top of the list)


        • on March 31, 2011 at 7:15 pm soud1

          Yep,we got e-mailed today by our Fed about this.

          This time they really need to shout loud and clear that we will not be having any of this at all.

          They also need to make clear and that in this time of rally’s and demo’s etc they need us more than we need them and tell the government that they will be advising officers to withdraw from public order duty.


  72. on March 31, 2011 at 5:47 pm laffable

    I’m awaiting the implementation of our shift changes, the recall of response to the big nick has left my outpost town desolate.

    I am looking forward to the first friday night patrolling it…would be nice if someone else was with me but the single crewing policy seems to have overridden the health and safety policy we had.

    I’m not too bothered about them making me work another 10 years to get my pension as i don’t think i will be around long enough to draw it. I would like to know if the ill-health/injury pension is being affected as i envisage getting a few ‘kickings’ in the not too distant future.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 6:09 pm Shafted

      Injury Pensions They have been messing around with them since 2004.


    • on March 31, 2011 at 7:10 pm soud1

      We call it the “Golden brick” and there’s nearly a race to catch one every public order duty.


  73. on March 31, 2011 at 6:31 pm TheBinarySurfer

    Further to the bit about privatisation of the police above; it’s already being done in a round-about way with employers paying for their employees to be specials constables (they are liable for the ‘cost’ of the training and i think wages also?).

    Check it out properly and call me a liar – the FT ran an article about it back in 2006/2007.

    They are also steadily carving out chunks of the back-office to private companies; forensics is latest on the hit-list. I’d predict they’ll move over specialisms first before general response; perhaps computer crime units, fraud investigations etc. Then finally the push will come on operational units; all in the name of efficiency and austerity of course…


    • on March 31, 2011 at 8:19 pm Anonymous Panda

      The shift across to private provision of forensic services is going to fuck the system even more than it already is.

      A handful of cases in recent weeks ended up as No Evidence, mostly due to financial pressures to restrict use of forensic services. Once the private sector gets involved the costs are only going to go up, the results will take ten times longer to get and still manage to be half as accurate.

      I have a story about a “drugs expert” that I’d love to share but won’t as it is too easy to recognise the people involved :)


      • on March 31, 2011 at 11:06 pm PC Lightyear

        Seconded.

        We will lose a lot more jobs in court with lawyers easily being able to challenge the integrity of the evidence chain on cross contamination issues.


  74. on March 31, 2011 at 7:15 pm Mike Mike Charlie Oscar

    Off point, but I’ve just read on the BBC website about a protest related to the death of ex-reggie singer Smilie Culture. Here is the link:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12918203

    There has already been an inquest, which concluded that he died of a self inflicted wound. This apparently is not sufficient for his best mate who called for an inquiry?? WTF is that going to do except waste more money? Why don’t these people just speak the truth:
    “We didn’t get the answer that we wanted, so we are going to keep campaigning till we do.”
    The government has opened a can of worms with it’s recent inquiry fever.

    It’s okay though because this call was robusted by our MPA member Cindy Butts who, through tears, said “It has been 30 years since the Brixton riots and so much has changed – [but] we have so much to do.”

    Job is f@*ked


    • on March 31, 2011 at 7:22 pm PC Lightyear

      Through tears?! Pandering patheticism, will encourage more police bashing


      • on April 1, 2011 at 4:50 am JuliaM

        “…will encourage more police bashing”

        Working, I suspect, as intended…


    • on March 31, 2011 at 8:36 pm tattyfalarr

      “we have so much to do”

      Well then HER next task is to come up with a foolproof strategy to stop people stabbing themselves. Solve the problems as you go an all that.


    • on April 1, 2011 at 7:03 am Ranter

      Good old Smiley culture, through his death a purpose has been given to his ridiculously named nephew ‘Merlin’, a boost to the failing career of race card hustler and proven liar and fraudster Lee Jasper and given the MPA’s veru own porn star Cindy Butts a chance to try out that phial of onion juice. Shysters the lot of ‘em!


  75. on March 31, 2011 at 8:52 pm Sarf dc

    You’re comment on saying no comment made me think guv, just I’m case any noobies are reading this I would suggest you never answer no comment without legal advice. Many of our scroats get very upset after being charged following a no comment interview


  76. on March 31, 2011 at 9:04 pm Bob

    Sorry in advance for my rant IG. It is time that the law abiding people of this country, you know the ones that work, pay their taxes, keep out of trouble and support, through the payment of taxes, low shite whose only purpose in life is to fuck each other and have more kids, take drugs, get pissed,fight,steal ,fiddle the system and laugh at the courts IF they ever get charged to appear there.
    The the law abiding people of this country pay via taxes to have tree hugging fuckwits elected into office who are no better than the SHIT we deal with on a daily basis.
    The only dfiference between the two groups is that one group talks bollocks and the other group couldn’t give a fuck as the tree huggers talk for them.


  77. on March 31, 2011 at 9:10 pm RedStorm

    Just watching Demolition Man for the first time ever (yes…I know…) & it seems like a terrible premonition:

    “How can a man be so blatantly sadistic…it was fun for him?!” – Police chief

    “We’re police officers – we’re not trained to deal with this level of violence!” – police officer

    Wonder if that will be the police in this country in a generation or so…finally giving up the ghost & panicking every time a scrote looks at us funny?


  78. on March 31, 2011 at 9:46 pm Angrymet

    New initiative in Metro City!

    The VOLT project. Advertised with lots of expensive posters and mousemats. Taking officers off of core teams to go on to Pan Borough squads which will respond to specific crimes, in specific locations at specific times.

    VOLT stands for:

    V = Victim
    O = Offender
    L = Location
    T = Time

    It’s all based on some shoddy statistics. The best one being: 7% of offenders are responsible for 50% of crime. Well, that’s easily solved isn’t it. Do I have to spell it out?

    J A I L or G A O L or P R I S O N or D E A T H


    • on April 1, 2011 at 7:00 am Ranter

      They can’t help themselves can they? Another acronym and other pointless ‘initiative’ keeping a project team out of harms way, oooh the meetings, the issues ‘around’, bollocks!


  79. on March 31, 2011 at 9:49 pm the quiet one

    redstorm,as you know we are trained to risk assess,fill in forms,justify our actions (arse cover),inform victims how enquiries are progressing……..i could go on,but what is the point.

    we get one day of “officer safety training” and 3 days of public order training a year although with the exception of the “violent deranged person” (someone in an empty room who does not want to be arrested,very realistic) other than that,i struggle to see where we are taught to deal with anyone who isn’t compliant,although shouting “get back!” a lot is included.

    the majority of what i do on a day to day basis isn’t taught,just what i know is reasonable and justifiable.not pretty but,hey,i usualy go home at the end of the shift and i’m not afraid if cctv is watching me.


  80. on March 31, 2011 at 11:06 pm Lumberjack

    Thought you lot might find this interesting – news of the day from Holland. It appears that after years of a similar situation facing the UK, policing budgetary cuts, plans to cut down on the rank & file etc – a new State policing plan will be coming into effect (after parliamentary vote) Jan 1, 2012 where the emphasis will be on eliminating waste, bureaucracy, consolidating forces & communication infrastructure, and astonishingly – huge cuts in the top management levels.

    Apparently, after years of resistance from police forces towards a hatchet job on personnel numbers, this was the compromise reached. Those Dutch are just so d*mn practical.

    70 of the top Dutch police positions to go:
    http://tinyurl.com/45gol8e

    Quarter of police support positions are to go:
    http://tinyurl.com/4gzlq7w

    Bureaucracy cuts to free up police for combating ‘real crime’:
    http://tinyurl.com/6bjrzet

    The responsible Minister (Security & Justice portfolio) is Ivo Opstelten http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivo_Opstelten

    Plan abstract: http://tinyurl.com/6j2at8z

    Full official plan (PDF – Dutch language only): http://tinyurl.com/6zkh5xq


  81. on March 31, 2011 at 11:10 pm PC Lightyear

    You have an officially sanctioned and approved blog?


    • on April 1, 2011 at 7:14 pm Colin

      What happens when you call your boss a wanker…?


  82. on March 31, 2011 at 11:27 pm Lumberjack

    Here’s the Google translation in English of the new Dutch National policing plan designed to cut down on waste, bureaucracy, consolidate forces & communication facilities, make support staff cuts, perform big cuts into top management positions – with no apparent reduction in the rank & file – all in the name of an improved service for less money.

    http://tinyurl.com/4ltqomu

    Implementation – National Police
    The Hague, March 31, 2011
    Ministry of Security and Justice
    Schedeldoekshaven 100 | EX 2511 | The Hague


    • on March 31, 2011 at 11:46 pm GA JE VERHUIZEN DAAN ?

      Nu is het heel mooie weer joh !



Comments are closed.

  • Blog Stats

    • 8,991,574 police pay cuts
  • Gadget Twitter

    • @GlennCameron TASER 10 hours ago
    • Whoever invented ‘big wing’ ops forgot to read the chapter about crime displacement. Ruralshire never really recovered from the last ones. 1 day ago
  • Gadget Bargains

    • Ruralshire Supplies
    • Ruralshire Supplies 002
  • Gadget Books

    • Available fro Amazon, Waterstones, Borders and Monday Books.
    • Wasting More Police Time
  • Gadget Media

    • A Guardian review
    • A Sun review
    • A Times Top 40 Blog
    • Daily Mail article
    • Daily Mirror (2007)
    • New Statesman
    • Telegraph article
  • Gadget Minds About

    • Blue Lamp Foundation
    • Help For Heroes
    • Police Memorial Trust
    • Royal British Legion
    • RUC Widows Assn.
  • Gadget Reads

    • 200 Weeks
    • A Blog from rural England
    • Alice the Architect
    • Area Search No Trace
    • Big Fella In Blue
    • byways by railway
    • Dan Collins
    • DCI Gene Hunt
    • Frank Chalk – Teacher
    • Freelance Photographer
    • Gadget's Other Blog
    • Lurcher Blog
    • mental health cop
    • Not George Dixon
    • Pensions petition
    • Prague Tory
    • Randon Acts of Reality
    • Special Dibble
    • Stonehead
    • The Last Ditch
    • Theodore Dalrymple
    • Thin Blue Line
    • Which End Bites?
    • Winston Smith
    • WPC Bloggs 21st Century
  • Recent Posts

    • When practitioners are not consulted….
    • I do not discuss these things at home.
    • More nonsense from the keyboard-rattlers SHOCK
    • UK Police – Mission Accomplished.
    • Policing Through The Looking Glass
  • Meta

    • Register
    • Log in
    • Entries RSS
    • Comments RSS
    • WordPress.com

Blog at WordPress.com.

Theme: MistyLook by Sadish.


Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 3,995 other followers

Powered by WordPress.com