Violent criminal Kes Nattris has been charged with stabbing a TVP officer twice in the stomach during a robbery in Bracknell yesterday. My sources both in Surrey and TVP tell me that officers are furious. Shocked and sad; understandable, but furious? why?
Because…………
In 2006, Kes Nattriss was sentenced to seven years and nine months in prison for a spree of attacks on off-licences in Woking and Bracknell.
Nattriss robbed 10 shops over a period of 12 days after jumping bail for a racist attack in March in Guildford during which he threatened a man and kicked and spat at his car in front of the victim’s terrified teenage son.
This means that he should have been in prison until 2014. But it’s 2010 isn’t it?
Why, yet again, just like Andrew Lee Fenn, is Nattris out of prison, free to rob and stab again?
Here are the Natriss charges from the 2005 jobs:
North West Surrey Division:
1. Charged with robbery violence following a robbery at Threshers Off Licence, Coldharbour Lane, Woking on Thursday 18 May
2. Charged with robbery violence following a robbery at Threshers Off Licence, Kingfield Road, Woking on Thursday 18 May
3. Charged with robbery violence following a robbery at Threshers Off Licence in Addlestone on Monday 22 May
Thames Valley Area:
1. Charged with robbery violence following a robbery at Threshers Off Licence, Broad Street, Wokingham on Tuesday 9 May
2. Charged with robbery violence following a robbery at The Local in Bracknell on Saturday 13 May
3. Charged with attempted robbery following an incident at Co-Op Stores, Crown Wood, Bracknell on Tuesday 16 May
4. Charged with robbery violence following a robbery at The Local, Bracknell on Tuesday 16 May
5. Charged with robbery violence following a robbery at Threshers Off Licence, Binfield, Bracknell on Sunday 21 May
6. Charged with criminal attempt following an attempt to steal money, a car and briefcase from another person in Bracknell on Tuesday 9 May
7. Charged with criminal attempt following an attempt to commit a burglary in Crowthorne Road, Bracknell between Thursday 4 May – Sunday 7 May
8. Charged with burglary non dwelling with intent to steal following an incident in London Road, Binfield, Bracknell between 4 – 5 May
Yet again, Inspector Gadget and PC Bloggs had to speak out about the stabbing in the first place as it was largely hidden in the media. Yet again, I am not afraid to publish the information above, because I believe the public have a right to know what we, and they, face on a daily basis as a result of the failure of the prison system to keep dangerous criminals locked up.
In just about every other civilised country in Europe, the system would have thrown the key away on this individual long ago. When will those who insist upon clinging to some pseudo liberal idea of rehabilitation eventually get it? The Fenn’s and Natrisses of this world only understand one thing; real hard time with no early release.
Gadget Note: Once again, thanks to The Sun for providing the only real heavy duty coverage yesterday.
First?
This beggars belief.
Woohoo… First. (still not sure what the big deal is!)
Am I right in understanding that all those offences happened in the same month of the same year?
It really is a truly shocking state of affairs when someone can have a list of convictions THAT long, in THAT short space of time, was convicted, and is out already.
I’d love to meet the comittee of limp wristed, bed wetting, liberals that decided he was safe for release. Some home truths would be forthcoming. Though these types are so arrogant it would fall on deaf ears no doubt.
I really don’t envy you guys, seeing this sort of crap everyday would send me round the bend. I doth my cap to you sirs.
Regards,
TaffyMedic.
aahh taffy, not seen you on here for a bit mate? been busy filling in NHS questionaires?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7122310.ece
IG with reference to kes
(kes? kes? fucking kes?!?!?!?!? is anyone reminded of a classic film involving a young lad from Barnsley and a bird of prey?.. or Bo Selecta)
I think YCMIU is the new FUBAR…..
Out of curiosity, does anyone know a ballpark figure of how much it costs to build and run a prison?
How much would it cost to build enough prisons to make bastards like Nattris go away for a very long time? Does it come even close to the money spent on keeping bankers in moet?
Dave talks of fixing broken Britain, the criminal justice system is clearly broken, build some more prisons, give it some teeth and fix it. Please?
Regards,
TaffyMedic.
Perhaps Theresa May should be asked why.
And an answer demanded.
Hi alex,
Lol yes i did see your post, replied to you a few days later. And no, it wasn’t my trust so thankfully I didn’t have to fill out that beauty! Even our diversity manager had a laugh about that one.
Taffy.
Blimey, its not even a case of throwing away the key, it would be a nice start just to get them to serve the time that they have been sentenced to.
These stories are all too familiar boss. Its the same in my force (sorry, service). Serious repeat offenders free to roam the streets. All we get off the SMT is ‘more’, they want more arrests, more intel, more more more. We work really hard, but isnt never enough for them, no credit is ever given.
But these stories just reinforce the mindset, that ultimately what we’re doing it utterly pointless.
Good job he didn’t do anything REALLY unacceptable like putting the wrong item in bin no. 4 (of 7), or put his bin out before 0700 – THEN the courts would have been tough on him…
Seriously though, for you people in the service (and I’m excluding all political ladder-climbing senior officers), how on Earth do you stick it, putting your life on the line – at least potentially – every time you’re on duty, and then you see scrotes like this just putting two fingers up to the rest of us AND GETTING AWAY WITH IT!!
I can’t advocate a revolution, ‘cos then you’d be feeling MY collar, but sometime soon things have got to really change or we’ll all sink in a swamp of state-inspired anarchy** which has been given a Human Rights Act impervious shield.
**I know “state-inspired anarchy” appears to be an oxymoron but it isn’t, if you really think about it.
^because i get paid every month mate, lol. Plus i think some are ‘pensioned in’. They might have 15-20 years in, good pension, no other prospects, why would they leave to start from scratch elsewhere.
We truly are living in a fucked up country.
I can’t see any new prisons being built anytime soon.
It’s blatently obvious we need to lock up the 1.2 million (I think that’s the right number) recidivist pieces of shit that commit crime & misery in this land.
As you say boss, that lowlife should still be in chokey for another 4 years.
I’d like to personally like to thank the fucking idiots that thought he was suitable for release…
‘Starting’ to lose patience?! … the reason I joined the police is because my patience had run out.
Our legal system is a sham! Despite all the hard work and dedication that goes in, if it does get past CPS to get to court they slap them on the wrist or send them to prison for a disproportionate amount of time.
When will they understand that locking them up will prevent re-offending?
Angrymet declines to make a statement. He is too angry.
I have decided to join Angrymet’s statement above. I am really pissed off with the criminal justice system in this country. Enough said, for now!!!
It’s just another example of our namy pamby wishy washy justice system. He was driven by his drug problem! he had a difficult childhood! blah blah blah blah.
Someone should be help accountable for this shit being allowed to kill again. I am quite certain that the general public wanted this low life locked up for the long term.
Cost of room and board here in LaLa land is 3 times minimum wage i.e. 70$thou./yr
Cost of housing kids in school a lot less.
The Con has conned the publick, In the “Good old days” the con had to come up with scratch or fade away or if lucky could catch a few sewer rats.
Always follow the money trail, those that sentence rarely ever have to pay with any personal loss and the bill is paid for by the tax paying segment, never by those that have the doreme off shore, thus no motive.
Only when 10% of real voters suffer will things change, just like the drunk, no habit change until the sclerosis kicks in.
Unfortunately too many are living in their own domain, thus never see the problem.
“When will they understand that locking them up will prevent re-offending?”
never
Why should they reform?
They have everything they need to keep breathing.
Best thoughts indeed to the brave soul in hospital, and to his family, and colleagues. And in my case, ex-colleagues, having worked for TVP in East Berks.
And as for fury and losing patience – absolutely.
Try this link on Nattriss from 2006.
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/74765_man_jailed_for_armed_robberies
“Nattriss appeared at Guildford Crown Court handcuffed and surrounded by four guards because of the danger he posed. He spoke only to confirm his name and complain about his restraints throughout his hearing.”
He’s probably complaining about something else now, no doubt. Perhaps a member of the leftist liberal elite who allowed him to walk free would like a one-on-one chat with him in his cell as he sporks his microwaved all-day breakfast down his throat.
Sympathies have to go with any officer or victim having to deal with scum or wackos who should be in gaol. Have the T-shirt on both counts. Didn’t end up in custody myself after having a go, but others have. Linda Walker springs to mind and some recent examples. I resist the idea that a liberal, leftie elite is responsible, but only because it’s more complex than that. Nulabour even went around vaunting its “successes”.
IG-style outing is a first step, often promised by worthies but never done. Missed in this is that official outings would also protect those of us standing up to the scum, not just in letting us know who they are, but also protecting us from the kind of vile stuff the scum put about themselves to smear us and confuse the situation.
Currently the elite making decisions never have to face up to the consequences of their decisions as these generally occur well away from their lives.
has Chakrabarti weighed in yet about the little darling’s human rights and how it would have been wrong to make him serve his sentence? Can’t be too long now. . .
And yet we regularly have prison reformers and other ‘professionals’ who feed on the CJ system who will bang on about the ‘disturbing’ and ‘barbaric’ numbers of people who are in prison in the UK plus the over representation of particular ethnic groups within that total.
The true picture is revealed by I-G’s recent posts about uncontrollable recidivists as these DNA wasters were once officially called.
A story on R4′s Today programme this morning had Peter Fahy droning on about the consumption of alcohol and demand on police and NHS resources which developed from a story about cheap alcohol and the concern of Tesco customers. Fahy is agitated by over consumption in the home as well.
Were the right questions actually asked by Tesco of their customers and of Fahy by the reporter? NAAAAAAAH!
I’ll drink to that. Later on obviously!
XX In just about every other civilised country in Europe, the system would have thrown the key away on this individual long ago. XX
Don’t you bloody believe it. It is not uncommen here to see arseholes get 5 to 10 for murder, and be out in half that.
Your case above? Hard to tell exactly, it depends on the judge here as well, but 6 months to 3 years would be about right. Anything under a year “Auf Bewährung”, (On probation).
Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Holland, he would probably be in an open prison and allowed home at weekends on top of that.
We should all give this full publicity. I have blogged this today and note that several people from Bracknell Council have already been on to read it. The more aware that the public become, the greater the chance of somebody in authority getting a conscience and doing summat about things!
People like Natriss will never reform, never.
They have to put in jail and serve long sentences.
Only then will the public be safe.
But then, the Judges / MPs etc who can change all that never get near to people like Natriss when they are loose on the streets. So it doesn’t matter to them.
I hope the copper gets better soon and has a speedy recovery.
I know Natriss well, having first got to grips (literally) with him in 2000. He was still a kid back then and was still a horrible, nasty, violent thing. As soon as he had been locked up, the first thing he did was to smear up (dirty protest – smearing his excrement on himself and the cell walls, pushing it under the door.)
Best way to describe him is ‘slow motion train wreck.’ I was still a grunt in 2000 but I could see, as could the rest of my team, that he was bad news and that he would only become worse and worse, as he has proved.
It’s hard to pass any further comment; naturally, my thoughts and prayers go out to the brave man who put himself in harms way. At risk of sounding damning, and based upon personal experience, he will never prove to be anything other then a parasite, feeding off other’s efforts and inflicting misery. He has already caused enough mayhem and, frankly, enough is enough.
speedy recovery to the copper.
can’t believe this story is still pretty much unpublished and other coppers are unaware of it.
the people who make the decisions are completely unaware of what we face and put up with.
we get assaulted and bitten but its ok because we are coppers and should expect it.
Everytime I see that Chakribati creature on the TV spouting cra I end up throwing the remote at her…
Im on my 125th TV this year…
Can we pay her to shut up??
what is amazing is the lack of coverage, when Andrew Fenn stabbed someone after he was ‘sort of’ named as an offender in another job, the police were at fault..
similarly a new one today that the female owner of the house fire in derbyshire (where 2 kids died) has been charged with their murder..
when the story broke all we heard was that the police had done nothing about the ASB at her house, it was all over the news, now this has come it again it’s quiet again
Inspector, I think you are mistaken here, quote: “In just about every other civilised country in Europe, the system would have thrown the key away on this individual long ago. ”
I believe that in every other civilised country in Europe – mostly the EU15 – the situation is roughly similar: even serious offenders walk out after serving just a third or so of what was the nominal jail sentence – which wasn’t so harsh in the first place.
Strangely, in some of the countries that I’d consider less civilised, or at least having a lesser reputation of solid rule of law – take Russia for an example – they’d still be in prison. Unless they’d been transferred to six feet under, killed by the jail conditions.
Howdiedoodie,
Yes, its very frustrating.
People are getting banged up and dealt with for piffling offences when the real bastards are literally getting away with murder. Whilst justice has to be tempered at times too often we hear of scum like this being let out well before they should be.
This bugger sounds like he was a danger and is a danger to anyone who comes near him. It will be interesting to see what happens when he is next before the clown court
Sentences will always be short, and unserved, while so many people depend on the state sponsored rehabilitation industry for their salaries and pensions. Social workers, psychologists, lawyers, any number of “support” staff &c. all look on repeat offending as repeat business.
It won’t change unless the scumbags are stupid enough to start targeting the sections of society with the political power. Patently, the judiciary don’t care if the local off-license on the estate gets robbed. OTOH, what would be the result of trying to burgle a high court judge’s gaff? Armed response in 10 minutes, no doubt.
The liberal elite are able to insulate themselves from the consequences of their consciences. Lets put the bail hostels in some up market areas; maybe the scrotes will learn some nice manners there.
In the Guardian, where MPs are moaning about the new expenses regime, one MP is quoted thus:
‘What happens on a January night in London? I suppose I will have to take the tube, then a bus and then a long walk home. That is not safe.’
You mean, like everyone else has to? My heart bleeds.
Thank God that we are still able to manage a prosecution for a teachers who jabbed a glue stick at a badly behaved child, so perhaps all is not lost?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8692021.stm
Thank God that we are still able to manage a prosecution for a teacher who jabbed a glue stick at a badly behaved child, so perhaps all is not lost?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8692021.stm
I concluded some years ago that the best hope of rehabilitation for the weird weird weird psychopath a friend of mine was divorcing, would be ten years cutting wood in Siberia. Nothing brutal, but a long ascetic desert experience, with hard work.
Then it occurred to me that presumably it’s a lot cheaper to keep people cutting wood in Siberia than in prisons in Edinburgh or the Home Counties.
So why not lease a few thousand acres from the Russians and ship long-term prisoners out there?
And short-term ones (where it wouldn’t pay to move them there and back) can damn well dig the ragwort out of motorway verges.
Everyone I’ve suggested this to is mildly shocked. Am I evil?
Perhaps the likes of Chakrabati (or however it’s spelt) should pop along and visit the injured officer and his family and have a chat about human rights with them. She’s a f***wit and I seroiusly hope she is cast aside now NuLabour have gone and her pathetic excuses are correctly ignored.
Everyone I know seems to agree with longer sentences, harder time etc etc. Yet these liberal few seem to have a real influence, as though they are speaking for the people. They are not. Decent people have no fear of hard prison time, as they won’t ever have to serve it.
Chakrabati seems to think we all live in a police state where we fit people up and imprison them for no reason, and that drug addiction and violent outbursts are symptoms, not causes. Fact is, these scumbags are accountable because of their lifestyle choices, it isn’t something they couldn’t help.
I turned up to a piss can workshy scrounger last week for the 5th call in 5 hours as he fell out with his mum yet again, this time as he wanted his ID for a crisis loan. With the DSS about to shut I asked him to call if he could and extend the waiting time, he pulls out an iPhone and gets the extension. He then tells me it’s for weekend essentials, you guessed it, beer and fags (oh and some food). He claims he can’t work as he has stress.
He was later arrested for assaulting his Mrs that night, pissed up. It seems Chakribati and her cronies have what they want, a society free of consequence where you can have the same and MORE than the decent workers all for nothing.
I’m pretty mad now.
JohnG: Whilst justice has to be tempered at times
Irrelevant. Kill him.
@berenike, Why choose Russia? I think an establishment on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruinard_Island will do wonders for them.
They can’t swim away, and life will be, shall we say, hard be fair…
Second thoughts, we done need buildings there, just a few tents. And supply ships to visit once a month.
Ladies and Gents. Spare a thought for our French colleagues, who lost one of their own last Tuesday. This report is from ‘Le Monde’ and my thoughts are with his family and his colleagues at this awful time.
A police officer died Tuesday, March 16, near Dammarie-les-Lys, killed by gunmen who came to rob the garage, Auto Connection, where they seized six cars after having threatened the manager and an employee.
The interior minister, Brice Hortefeux, visited the police station of Dammarie-les-Lys, where he met the three colleagues of the killed policeman, Jean-Serge Nerine. He was in the police for thirty years, he was the father of four children. Mr Hortefeux urged policemen to “do their mission for the security of their citizens, but to think about their life, their own safety and their family.”
It was a little over 1900 hours, when the shooting erupted. A police patrol composed of four officers were travelling near the car dealership in Villiers-en-Bière, near Dammarie-les-Lys. The patrol had not been alerted to the robbery, but identified four suspects. One suspect brandished a weapon and opened fire on police. Brigadier-chef Jean-Serge Nerin, 52, collapsed. He was shot twice in the chest. The body armor did not stop the projectile which passed under the armpit. He was hit in the pulmonary artery. He died an hour later at the hospital Dammarie-les-Lys.
In the ensuing shootout, the attackers managed to flee. But one of them was arrested. He was armed with a .357 Magnum caliber 11.43 mm and spoke in Basque. He is called called Joseba Fernandez Aspurz and was born in 1983. A militant of the Basque terrorist organization ETA, he is wanted in Spain since November 2009.
This is the first time a French policeman has been killed by the militant Basque organization.
Jean-Serge Nerine, the policeman killed, was a family man. He had spent his entire career in the police of Dammarie-les-Lys. His death has provoked strong feelings among his colleagues. Trade unions denounce the “hate violence” that they say falls against the police officers. “You hesitate to shoot at police. This murder is not an isolated tragedy,” laments Unit GSP, the main union peacekeepers. Two months ago, in Chessy, an officer Patrice Point, died, run over by a thief who tried to flee after a burglary.
I’m siding with Oi on this one. Bring back the death penalty. 0% recidivism, no lengthy detention costs, ABSOLUTELY no further victims.
Ooh, just finished reading your book, IG, (yeah I know it’s been out ages!) Brilliant. It’s now getting loaned to members of the family who don’t know what the job’s really about.
As long as Chief Constables have to employ ‘arse covering inititiaves’ to cover what should be basic police work, wrapped up in buzz phrases and media friendly sound bites, at the same time as ACC’s are whittling about whether cops know the policing pledge verbatim, (auditors phoning extentions at random to ask) and DCC’s castigigating staff for using the wrong font (I kid you not!) on the computer, nothing will improve, perhaps the £500 million saved by axing the NPIA will wipe out the overtime debt, and still leave £100 million in the pot !
If it was a “pseudo-liberal idea of rehabilitation”, that would imply that someone, somewhere is working, rightly or wrongly, from a point of principle.
This is nothing of the sort – it’s just a response to a lack of prison places, a desire to save money and fuck the consequences because I won’t be the one to have to deal with them.
Head, wall, many times. Nought changes nor will it.
@ kKop: “Ooh, just finished reading your book, IG, (yeah I know it’s been out ages!) Brilliant. It’s now getting loaned to members of the family who don’t know what the job’s really about.”
Loans are strictly verboten, kKop. Tell the tightwads to buy a copy. otherwise Gadget’s children may starve.
http://news.aol.co.uk/uk-news/three-jailed-for-blackberry-killing/article/2010052107353887624319
Nine years for robbery and manslaughter – out in six if they’re unlucky, four if they’re lucky.
In the States, they’d be tried for 1st degree murder (the death occured during the commision of a robbery) and be
doing life without parole or waiting to be strapped to the table.
@ Frenchie – my thoughts to the family of the officer who died – restez en paix
If only he had been taken fishing by a PCSO, all this could have been avoided.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7750054/Police-force-criticised-for-funding-fishing-trips-for-troublemakers.html
PMFJI, but has no-one considered what the long term prospects of armed robbery as a career would be if victims rights to defend themselves with firearms were restored?
It was a 1969 Home Office policy decision, not a change in statute law, which was enthusiatically supported by the police staff associations that disarmed the public.
Reverse that policy and there is a high probability that we will return to 1960′s rates of violent crime.
The trouble with rearming the public is that most decent folk probably wouldn’t buy a gun even if they legally could because after years of weapons being illegal, most people would be scared of how carrying one would affect others’ perception of them, or even irrationally consider the simple act of carrying a weapon to be somehow morally wrong.
Meanwhile, every criminal (or at least every criminal with at least one mate without a criminal record) would have easy access to guns.
Perhaps I’m misjudging how things will go, but it just doesn’t seem like a good idea to me.
Regarding the take up of firearms for defence, IIRC only 2% of those who are qualified to take advantage of the liberalisation of “concealed carry” in the US and they only actually carry firearms half the time. That is sufficent to have the desired effect in public places apparently. Shopkeepers do not need that authorisation of course.
Cabbage, it is not illegal to have firearms on certificate for defensive purposes. It is Home Office policy to instruct chief constables not to issue certificates for that purpose. That is a different thing altogether.
Execute the bastards. It’s funny, but I meet a lot of people who have to work for a living, and pay taxes etc. If the subject of corporal punishment/execution comes up, I have not heard anyone who was totally against it. Now, I admit, My acquaintances may not be representative of the country as a whole, but I reckon if a referendum was held tomorrow, it would be a close run thing. Now I do believe that everyone ought to have one chance, but any more is really taking the piss.
And for my next trick I will abolish the ‘human rights act’ or only apply it to human beings.
CP
When Chakrabati comes out with yet a another left wing liberal pathetic excuse for criminality, the only thing that stops me kicking my TV is imagining her dressed up as ‘Betty Boop’. The likeness is uncanny
TonyF,
I agree. The death penalty is the common law penalty for murder.
It is not being imposed unlawfully by a statute which is policy not law and in contravention of the Coronation Oath.
This is another problem bequeathed to us from the 1960′s that needs sorting out.
Likewise corporal punishment and the “clip round the ear” adminished by a PC. Look in a vintage textbook, such as the 1939 edition of the Metropolitan Police Guide, and you will find that the former was a common law punishment and the latter was a common law case disposal.
TonyF,
Regarding the Human Rights Act, it is not as bad as it looks. In fact it respects our common law rights, when it is correctly interpreted.
The presumption of innocence was recognised. That is the legal basis of the Right to Keep and Bear arms, possession of a weapon does not neccessarily make one a bad person as Halsburys Laws of England confirms:
“Wearing weapons commonly worn.
Apart from statute, it is not an offence for persons
to wear common weapons upon occasions on which it is the common practice to wear them, where there can be no suspicion of an intention to commit any act of violence or disturbance of the peace.”
Unlerss you start dismanteling statute law, it is hardly relevant, is it?
Furor,
The common law defence of duress, as in arming oneself in anticipation of a threat that weapons are an answer to, is relevant. So is correctly interpreting statutes.
Duress is a defence to any offence except treason and murder. Even if there were a statute that forbade the possession of common weapons (which there isn’t) duress would be a lawful defence.
Regarding dismantling statute law, the lawful rebellion and freeman movements are busy doing just that BTW, but that is not necessarily on topic here.
There’s nothing surprising in this piece unfortunately ” That’s life these days “
I’m fairly left wing and I don’t think longer jail terms will reform the criminal. Still they would mean that he was in jail longer which would mean he could hurt less people. That’s what the justice system is about, right?
XX Ruction
There’s nothing surprising in this piece unfortunately ” That’s life these days “XX
No need to “lie down and roll over” for the situation though, is there?
XX Peter
I’m fairly left wing and I don’t think longer jail terms will reform the criminal. XX
I agree. Longer knecks is what they need.
I miss gene hunt already.
Here in California, I testified against a man who killed a convenience store clerk during a robbery. He was charged with first degree murder, and got 25-years-to-life. In the UK, he probably would have been charged with littering (leaving the dying man on the floor…)
We get a lot of criticism from wealthy mushbrains whose money insulates them from street crime, but we like our Third Strike law. Three criminal convictions = mandatory prison time. A career criminal can decide to go straight, leave California, or roll the dice and hope he doesn’t get caught a third time because he WILL go to prison. Keeping villains locked up costs money, but it costs society more to let them free-range (as you and your wounded colleagues sadly know).
Sidebar: I was walking through Bletchley near Milton Keynes when some mini-scrote turned and stamped his foot as if he was going to come after me. I grinned at him and waited, ready to pound his head against the post I’d stopped near. He looked startled and walked away. I’m glad now I didn’t have to do it — I would probably have been in violation of some Yob Protection Act or other.
And a question: Did Hyacinth Bucket/Bouquet come up with the ASBO idea? I can just see it:
“RICHahhhd, the youngsters will be SIMPly MORTified!” Is it true that some knuckleheads have over a hundred of those damn things? Do they collect them, trade them, wallpaper their bedrooms with them?
Sorry for the length of the post. I’ve been lurking a long time, and something just snapped today. Maybe it’s all the wounded citizens and cops piling up.
IF – and i mean IF – i weren’t in my current job, i MIGHT advocate a posse of forensically aware nutjobs hunting this little piece of cockrach crap down and enlightening him. But i would never advocate that sort of behaviour and would challenge anyone who did.
Once again best wishes to the TVP officer.
The thing is that while IG and his contemporaries have kindly highlighted two cases that do need the media spotlight shone on them these two are not isolated individuals. There are hundreds of individuals of a similar type and profile in each major city and they are responsible for an overwhelming percentage of violent crime in their areas.
The likes of the above will breed like rabbits with a plethora of ‘partners’ and very likely produce offspring of a similar mentality and calibre (sorry liberals but it’s proven by numerous studies; children from ‘broken’ families with parents who have a violent criminal history very often turn out like their parents, just like people from good homes who were brought up well tend to do well in life) who will in turn spawn at the earliest possible convenience etc.
As to anyone saying ‘prison isn’t the answer’…You’re half right. Rehabilitation is better than prison, but simply put it often doesn’t work as the offender has to WANT to change and many of them don’t as theres no motivation for them to do so (as someone mentions – like druggies and alcys they only do once there is a compelling reason to – i.e. you may well die from your addiction)! Prison DOES work at preventing reoffending for the duration of the sentance.
It’s good to turn people onto the straight and narrow via rehabilitation programs and I support it wholly, but where they refuse to do so it’s just common sense to bang them up for a good stretch to try and bring them around! The rights of the victim should ALWAYS take precedence i.e. great if you can rehabilitate safely and effectively. If you cant then protection kicks in and the offender should do a lengthy term.
Rehab is obviously a good idea, but we don’t organise iy early enough. Resources are missing at the point where the trouble starts to brew. I’d make these points:
1. The problems need independent review and to be taken out of the hands of lying politicians who extract votes from posturing on crime.
2. The running dogs of these bent politicians (SMTs and senior bureaucrats in other agencies) need to be sacked for covering up past failures. I would hang them
3.Representation for the scum needs to be maintained, but taken away from lawyers. We need to stop money going down this and other toilets.
4. Victims should get lawyers and be able to sue for reasonable damages.
5. Turning these creeps loose without proper supervision should be a criminal offence under a Bill of Rights.
6. Costs and who gets the money should be made public – to let the public decide what to spend.
7. POW style camps should be built and Chakrabattie and her mates should do their human rights drivel in them.
I have a plan…..
We convert a couple of oil rigs into very basic prisons and use these for the short term sentance prisoners 6 months or less. Video visiting via skype.
All the land based prisons get stripped out except the basics and a school.
We start using number plates instead of tax discs, you have to renew them each year and can only buy them from the goverment. We make them using prisoners which will fund some of the prison cost. It will also help reduce some vehicle crime.
Prisoners will do full prison time and can only earn 15% reduction. The reduction is earned by passing some form of qualification, and not in basket weaving. English, maths etc etc.
Within ten years the prison population would drop as it would now be a punishment.
All visitors and staff would be x rayed on entering a prison to curb the bringing in of anything. Improve pay for the prison officers, but destroy the ones that smuggle for the cons.
Simples
Even simple steps in reducing the prison population seem to work.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/6900265/No-smoking-prison-sparks-drop-in-crime.html
I.G
I know that this is not a current Policing issue but can I please bring the following link to your attention.
To those Police Officers reading this,it shows you how the Job treats you when you are no longer of any use to them, Watch your Backs!!.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00sf8pt/The_Nolan_Show_21_05_2010/?forumid=196246
Ahem…
Off topic but I know there’s a lot of Gene Hunt fans here;
http://hippointhefridge.blogspot.com/2010/05/crime-figures-go-figure.html
Perhaps it may explain a few things…
Frenchy: it goes to show people seek pleasures, Humans will always change if there is no pleasure, and prisons are a source great pleasure to some, if it gives pain, change takes place, the trick is to find the correct pain to match the person.
In my ill gotten youth we had a “Corporal called Cain”.
Some seeing Cpl Cain appear would collapse in a puddle of tears and needed a new set of undergarments, others would laugh and brag how Cpl Cain supplied many lines across the beam end and would show them off as badges of merit, but deny them their “chochies”, then they would turn on the water works.
It is a shame that most Psychiatrists are of the red spectrum, but they would be useful in finding real punishments and identify their pleasure centers for those that fail to act in a civilized manner.
Customized Pleasure for those that adapt and denial of pleasure for the wrong answer, we do that for lab rats.
We are all Pavlov Dogs.
woof.
Dungbeetle. ONE of us needs, SERIOUSLY, to give up smoking that wacky backy.
And I gave up last week. So it must be you.
Slight digression but here’s a quote from the last century what describes the state we’re in and the root causes for it perfectly:
‘I think we have gone through a period when too many children and people have been given to understand “I have a problem, it is the Government’s job to cope with it!” or “I have a problem, I will go and get a grant to cope with it!” “I am homeless, the Government must house me!” and so they are casting their problems on society and who is society? There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and there are families and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help look after our neighbour and life is a reciprocal business and people have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations.’
While I despise many things that she did for political reasons / gain, in my opinion Thatcher was a very personally and socially astute individual who was absolutely bang on with the above. It’s time to start realising once again (as a country) that NOTHING is free or without consequence.
O.K sorry Gadget old boy. But I MUST ask.
Does ANYONE have a Video link to the begining of the Episode of Life on Mars, where, in the style of “Camberwick Green”, Gene Hunt “interviews” a suspect with the aid of a bin lid?
I am not wanting the whole episode. Just the “interview”.
The technique is….fascinating, and brings back VERY good memories!
Check this story out -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8698842.stm
The best line is from the Mayor at the bottom, talk about buring your head in the sand. “Everythings ok!”. Yeah right.
Rehabilitation can and does work but it needs a long time and the safest place for that is custody.
XX uncivilised servant
Rehabilitation can and does work XX
Proof? Evidence?
Loads of evidence on what works with offenders on home office research website – don’t laugh those researchers are the best in the business!
Furor Teutonicus,
Try…..
RTC
“Rehabilitated” indicates a return to something. “Rehabilitated” from, or to, WHAT?
They (Criminals) were, and always WILL be ARSEHOLES!
Only one answer.
We called them “Erzieungslager”. Or, in English; “Re-education” camps.
Run by the GESTAPO. Worked just FINE.
Do not throw out the baby with the bath water.
Furor Teutonicus: Punishment did once work, In Colchester army clink, they had fire hoses for those that failed to clean their tails, they also for 10 hours they kept the lads happy , had to remove sump oil from wooden floor boards, day in day out, scrub, scrub, no gym or playing sports.
There was a great movie of life at the nick at Tel-el-Kebir, that was about how to move a pile of sand around the prison yard.
Criminals should earn their keep, not have a free board and lodging like it was a Billy Butlins holiday camp, they should hate and never to return as satisfied customer.
Does anyone remember the media ‘outrage’ over the disabled pensioner who received a criminal record for ‘possessing a penknife to peel fruit’
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7593039/Disabled-caravanner-given-criminal-record-for-penknife-in-car.html
Maybe we should provide more info, to balance news stories.
http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/news/Police-arrested-disabled-fruit-knife-man/article-2183657-detail/article.html
Dungbeetle.
Aye. I have escorted a few, and SENT a few there. (Ex U.K, RMP).
The trouble with punishment is, that today there IS none.
My sympathies are with the officer hurt. I’d be more impressed with cops generally if they expressed more understanding on the plight of victims generally and their role in not getting justice done. IG and others are right on the piss poor SMT, wider legal system and so on, yet we need to understand more about how good cops (and even a few good social workers) are cowed into leaving the system as it is and very vulnerable people to their fate too often. Cops lied in our case to protect themselves, covering up the very issues revealed across public sector blogs.
An equivalent of this particular piece of bastard scum nearly killed my best mate around the time I made my mind up to stop being a cop. That was 30 years back and the scuzz had a similar record. I only suggest we were no better at dealing with all this then and shouldn’t look back to the good old days.
The situation is lunatic. Scum family costs £250,000 to evict and all the rest (who gets the money – it ain’t them?) or maybe £60K to £180K for family intervention (same question on the money). Has no one noticed we have no factories, you can’t slope off to Liverpool docks and ‘run away to sea’, etc. etc. We are paying all kinds of SMT types across the system lottery winning salaries, with no evidence any of them are worth squat. All sorts of thieving bwanker-types need to be policed, whilst our finest are constantly diverted by the utterly dumb, unfortunate and almost insanely violent.
We need these problems out of the hands of the idiot “capitalism” (god knows what it really is, as someone has had it away on their toes with the capital!) and into sensible local change projects that can turn tough on those who won’t cooperate or free-ride. I ain’t an advocate of communism (which was just another form of capitalism), but of Roosevelt’s second Bill of Rights which would have made fairly paid work a right. Don’t take this right, then take the bullet maybe?
Whatever we do, we have to stop all the lying and whatever it is that turns us all to the kow-tow position when authority is about and makes us go quiet because we get scared about our mortgages.
‘I’d be more impressed with cops generally if they expressed more understanding on the plight of victims generally and their role in not getting justice done’
oh right… never let the suffering or near death of a person that literally puts their life on the line so that people can go about their business stop you from making a snide comment eh?
nice
I don’t understand that statement by ACO as quoted above. The victim’s role in not getting justice done or the cop’s role? in my area at the moment i woudl reckon at least 60% of the reported crimes are finalised with “IP declines, undetected” – when we KNOW who the suspect is but the Injured Party declines to prosecute them – no matter how many times I try to help them through the process……
every single cop I work with is victim focussed – by nature, not by some forced policing pledge.
Lose patience:
Over here in Northern Ireland we have persons in the devolved Government – who are in day to day control of the running of this place – who have murdered police Officers.
My wife, family, friends and the dogs on the street tell me that officers are furious. Shocked and sad; understandable, but furious? why?
Meanwhile, crime in Holland has dropped to the point that the prisons have high vacancy rates.
I see a solution here.
Nothing snide in what I said above. When the chips were down in our case the cops lied and tried to fit me up. As to every cop being victim centred, most dealing with us were stereotyping clods not fit to wear the uniform. As to the idea of police protecting victims, we saw no clue shown and a total inability at basic levels in investigation that repeatedly put us in harm’s way. HMIC agrees with us on our force and some in here clearly can’t listen to any criticism – a serious problem in all the agencies.
These creeps who are on the streets when they should be doing time cause far more problems for MOPs than cops. There is a rampant blame culture in place, with plenty of officers across the agencies acting as jobsworths and prepared to hurt victims rather than admit to shortcomings in the system. There are massive differences across the country. GuMPstershire is useless, whilst 6 miles away, Lancashire are excellent. The inability to take criticism extends all the way up and is not specifically a police problem. One very creepy inspector even denied the problems Officer and a Lady outlines above – one of the eventual convictions once he was out of the way being for witness intimidation. We should be standing together and telling the truth.
Bollox.
Lol nice generalisation … The whole force of 7000 odd cops is ‘useless’…
From an ex-cop too …
Priceless…
I am wondering why you are an ex?
Took a stand?
Or sacked?
Don’t judge a whole force of 12 divisions by your bad experience with one problem in one street, in one sub division.
Presumably some of those incompetent jobsworths were responsible for getting the eventual convictions.
You have given an excellent example of how one bad experience is trumpeted from the rooftops but the good work that is done is ignored – a la Manchester Evening News coverage.
I am sorry for your bad experience, I am know nothing about your incidents – but from my experience of neighbourhood disputes it often involves numerous low level petty incidents that one party “knows” the other party committed, but we are unable to prove at court. Usually the best method is some form of civil asbo on conjunction with council officers.
My experience with lancs is somewhat less satisfactory than yours, however I am prepared to sort it out on an individual level, as I know how Sh1t it is to go into work and continually get knocked by criticism of my force that have got f-all to do with either me or the w
way my colleagues do their job.
Frenchie the one in March was ETA , there has just been a young female officer killed in Val de Marne last wed/Thursday , she was a memebr of the Police Municpale and leaves behind a 14month old daughter.
She went to the assitance of her colleagues who had stopped a van on stolen plates out jumped 5 men armed with AK47′s and automatic weapons , huge firefight and chase started , this about 10am in the morning , chased down A4 in Paris with shots being exchanged eventually villians van crashes , they commandeer another set their van on fire and begin shooting at the police and anyone who was moving , police officer who died had her raked by automatic weapon fire , she recieved one bullet to the the thorax and two to the head , the bad guys then made good their escape.
One guy arrested in possession of happy bag , AK’s explosives etc , he is a con with previous for armed robbery last stretch was 12 years , two other have been id’d by dna and fingerprints.
In total 4 or 5 police ooficers injured and about a 12 civilians
Sorry for the long post IG , but from what I read absolutely no coverage in the UK about it.
RIP to our colleague in France
Before he was released from custody he attacked an officer and the prison system elected not to charge him!!
this is only a matter of weeks ago, he spent at least a month in confinement before a transfer just before release!!
the above comment is in regards Nattriss
Who cares where justice comes from, so long as it’s delivered, Nice one Mr chav scum! One less pointless wannabejackbauer type.
Hoping the injured officer recovers soon, and that the scum that did this spends a long time where he should have been anyway.
British “Justice” at it’s finest, again.
I agree with a lot of what is said and my thoughts are with the injured Officer and his family. However the Prisons are not at fault it is the legislation that drives them. To keep a prisoner past his earliest release date is increasingly difficult. In part due to the pressure of overcrowding and from minority groups who think that locking up anyone is wrong and legislation.
In addition to this a few weeks prior to Nattriss being released he assaulted a Prison Officer and this incident was reported to the Police. The Officer in question was informed by the Police that an assault of this nature would not be in the public interest to peruse!
I would imagine the injured Officer and his family would disagree.