Interesting story in the Daily Mail today.
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a mini PC
Many, many moons ago I came out of the Oval tube station late at night and saw a group of youths a few yards down the road. I felt a bit uneasy, until I saw a police officer beside me, and asked him to escort me past the youths. Then I realised that even with his helmet on, he wasn’t quite as tall as me.
And that was when there was a 5’9 minimum height requirement.
Sorry, but I’ll only feel safe beside an officer – male or female – who’s taller than me. OK, I’m biased, but I bet I’m not the only one.
Cheers Linda..
But you didnt get robbed or attacked so clearly you WERE safe!
I think it’s a bit sad that his height should even be considered worth mentioning. Can he do the job? is really all that should be asked.
NO he can not.
The job involves locking up lots pof people that are normaly big and think they are tough.
IF he can take a knee cap out with just one punch then O.K. But otherwise, how the HEL is he going to conmtrol a six foot fouzr raging drunk on the Liverpool dock road?
Must be a slow news day for the Daily Mail…
It was a very long story, national events get a lesser word count.
unrelated but which way do we think this ones going to go?
crucially here BOTH parties are from a perceived minority/disadvantaged background. does one cancel the other out or not?
sorry for that gaffer, but ive been following the case with interest as alot rides on this one for the establishment. If dizaei loses then the credibility of the BPA anbd race and diversity rubbish goes with him……. And does his case merit evidence of bad character on the basis that he has been acquitted of the same type of crime before? the legislation only states “reprehensible behaviour”……..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1242902/Met-chief-Ali-Dizaei-Iranian-gangster-scares-people-claims-web-designer-confronted-unpaid-bill.html
sorry for that as in i didnt mean to divert the discussion in this topic, and apologise if this has annoyed anyone.
I think I’ll move to his area. Being five-foot-not-much, I’ve yet to encounter a police officer (male or female) who isn’t taller than me! I considered it as a career in my teens, but that was when they had a height restriction, and I failed it. Not many people make me feel tall, so I tend to grab the opportunity whenever I can (even though that usually means standing beside the pre-teens in family photos!)
Good luck to him. My other half towers over me, but I’ve never been afraid to stand up to him (or any other man, regardless of height).
At the CTCC we fully support and embrace diversity in our selection of potential police officers. The selection of officers must reflect the community which it serves. All this helps to support the values and aims of the organisation in making our communities feel safe and to bring offenders to justice.
mind your tongue doesn’t go through your cheek there!
My Bullshit-o-meter (TM) just blew a fuse!
You need to see your Doctor and get the meds increased.
Dizaei has been protected for far too long by his race, and has shown how the government has turned everybody into cowards that will allow misconduct aslong as nobody plays the race card.
In a statement, the NBPA said: “It is outrageous that the CPS, for the second time in four years, has commenced prosecution against the president of the National Black Police Association, Commander Ali Dizaei. This has not happened to any other senior police officer in the history of the MPS or the CPS.”
It really leaves me speech-less that people like Disaei are appointed to protect and govern us. People like him are worse than any usual corrupt officer before the ‘modern policing’ was introduced, the irony being that a change to ‘modern policing’ was supposed make police stand in line like puppets; obeying every word of governmental policies.
On the case of the short officer; Good on him, if he has seen a way of working around his short stature then there is no reason why he shouldn’t be able to achieve what he wants to do.
As you can tell (with my comment on the short officer), I believe that everybody should be given an equal opportunity to work hard to achieve what they want – I would hate if anybody was given different opportunities for equally capable people. So I’m certainly not racist.
The case with Dizaei is in fact racism and that’s why I hate it so much, Dizaei has been protected on what seems just to be race – I would like to see any other officer that wasn’t an ethnic minority get away with what he has done. I want equality for EVERYBODY and no double standards.
I thought I would clear that up just incase anybody thought I was picking on Dizaei for any other reason apart from him being a slimey, corrupt criminal in uniform.
Matt, well said.
A white police officer would have been binned 5 times over by now, to think nothing of the cries of racism that would come if a statement was made on their behalf by the “National White Police Association”.
These positive discrimination and minority focus groups often cause racism or racially-based ill-feeling where there previously was none by playing the race card over and over again like a stuck record.
Personally i think the organisation should be banned along with every other “special interest group” that are steadily destroying what little common sense is left in policing and the public sector in general.
It’s akin to a bunch of young siblings having a fight over their favourite teddy-bear, each grabbing an arm/leg and frantically tugging in opposite directions. It’ll all end in tears when the arms and legs come off just watch…
Funnily enough I’ve worked with a female officer who is actually shorter than this. might give the Mail a ring…….(she was 4″10 and a half I think.)
I now understand the meaning of “downsizing the police”.
I already have contacted the male – I know of one who is 4’10″. And I’d have her beside me before a lot of the 6 foot plus musclemen any day.
oops – Mail!!
Good for him. If he can do the job, where’s the problem?
Has someone said there is a problem?
Nope, no problem IG.
The issue is that a lot of us forumites are cynical, jaded and downright manic depressive coppers (I don’t speak for myself or any individuals in particular, of course!) who are used to there always being a problem at the bottom of everything they look into…
… be it that ‘just job’ that you’ve been saddled with to the carpet of fungus growing at the bottom of the mug of tea you’ve just drunk whilst taking a statement (not me – one of my probationers who failed to follow my lead and not accept the offered tea!)
There always seems to be a problem in everything these days, which is why it’s nice to see a decent piece like this in the media – why the focus on his height if he can do the job, I don’t know. Why not do an article on the most intelligent officer, or the least? The strongest or weakest? Where does it stop?
It reminds me of those ‘documentaries’ about gigantic people, dwarf people, lumpy people, tree people, conjoined people, otherwise different people – they’re nothing more than modern versions of Victorian freak shows dressed up as ‘documentaries’ to appeal to society’s less desirable curiosities.
Police officers need to have a physical presence, sorry but that is how it is in my experience.
Speaking as a 6ft 3 18 stone type cop I would not want to be a mini me.
At times we have to use brute force to deal with some very nasty people. My experience is that smaller in stature types revert to batons and CS far quicker than those that have stature.
This article reminds my of a Monty Python sketch with the knights of nick, come back I will bite your ankles (John Cleese having had his arms and legs chopped off).
Lets keep it real, how would / does he carry a public order shield? The full size one that ways 16llbs and is over 5ft tall? Or do they do a small persons version now?
Diversity has gone mad again.
Sorry if this offends, but that is how it is in my honest and humble opinion!
In my experience it tends to be the bigger, more muscly beefcakes that resort to violence more quickly than the smaller ones who have had to develop better communication skills throughout their life to make up for their lack of stature.
I’m not arguing with your comments about physical presence, but I do disagree that little people can’t be effective in their own right.
Also, why would he need to carry a public order shield if he’s not a MAST officer in the first place? If his strength and stature prevent him from carrying a shield, he wouldn’t pass the basic fitness test anyway and so wouldn’t be expected to carry one in the first place, so surely it’s a moot point?
Unless he wanted to go sledging…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/8458822.stm
SM in sense of humour failure again – I’d say things like sledging on a shield show the police in a good light generally, humanising the person behind the uniform much more than any bullsh*t filled official PR piece.
Nah – I disagree – smaller the person – bigger the chip on the shoulder!
I am 604 and 17st – dont need to fight
SC……………..”Police officers need to have a physical presence, sorry but that is how it is in my experience.”
They also must have intelligence, and other attributes that are independent of physique.
[Remember David vs Goliath]
Don ‘t disagree with that view, complete package not a small one.
Diversity is merely a holding position until more facts are available …
Daily Mail winding people up again, sometimes they have a point.
2 POINTS. How can Dizael be classed as black. What other copper would go out for a meal with his uniform on, when off duty. As for small coppers, I stood on a cigarette paper and just got in.
Re Devon & Cornwall’s latest recruit….. surely this is just a short story………..
I’ll get my coat.
i am a lurcher of small stature but of great speed, stealth and with very sharp teeth. would anyone like to take me on?
To be fair, Devon and Cornwall have a much lower level of crime than other parts of the…
Ok, I’ll get me coat
Of course Devon and Cornwall, quite famously, never had a drugs arrest until they formed a Drugs Squad. Perhaps those of limited stature should be very worried as it seems they might be a new target.
as other posters have mentioned, there are shorter officers already in various forces. i know i have worked with 2 people that are shorter than this chap.
as for this idea that his size means he cant or wont be able to handle violent situations and that smaller people tend to revert to batons or spray quicker?
whilst that might be true in the posters force i would have to say ive experienced the opposite. ive normally found smaller officers are more likely to use there brains and negotiate.
in fact its often the larger officers that tend to jump in and start using fists etc.
Thank you! I cringe at times at the hard handed tactics some of my bigger colleagues use. Also, a bit ‘non pc’, perhaps, but sometimes people are a bit taken aback when they see a small and slim person in front of them.
‘Not hitting someone smaller than you’ throwback from childhood maybe, but if it works, it’s good enough for me.
In most county Forces the height limit was 5 ft 8 ins for men and 5 ft 4 ins for women. In the City of London, (and Newcastle?) it was 6 ft.
In our Force, and possibly others, the height requirement was eased a bit if the recruit was ex fighting Forces, Marines, Paratropers etc.
I understand this chap was a soldier. Hopefully he will do OK. Time will tell.
Unfortunately, after years of Nulabor’s ‘uman rights, and ‘P.C.’, a lot of people will come to the conclusion that 5 ft tall Police Officers and Iranian Police Commanders only exist because someone wants to tick a particular box on a diversity form ……..
great comment!!!
here here
The problem that chaps going to have, martial artist or no is leverage, short limbs and limited reach.
Also speaking very generally, in my experience short blokes people tend to have a chip on their shoulder, and usually have to resort to violence faster than a large bloke who may be able to passively intimidate people into compliance.
Then again, did managed to do ok in the forces so who knows.
Blueknight is also right, the height requirement was largely (ho ho ho) waived for anyone who wasn’t ridiculously short who had a forces or similarly suitable background.
How far away is he!!!!???
i’d like to wish him luck! Maybe he is the Jack Russell of Policing…. small but bloody determined.
Aren’t we all missing the point here?
IG said “Interesting story in the Daily Mail today.” I didn’t think there was such a thing as an “Interesting” story in the Dailt Mail.
If you’d posted this as a caption competition, I’d be tempted to go with something alone the lines of…
“the long arm of the law meets its’ short legs.”
Long arms and short legs lead to sore knuckles…
You mean TSG ?
What really cracks me up are the comments posted under the article by members of the public – absolutely hilarious! Especially the remark about him being the Area hamster handler – classic!
He’ll not reach the pedals in that V70. Mind you, I’d guess that he’s not even a “basic” yet.
Do you think he needs a rope ladder to get into the car?
Bless! I would like to work with him – I am 5ft 1in and I would feel tall, which doesn’t happen very often. And have you ever had to deal with an annoyed Jack Russell? Little stumpy legs, SHARP TEETH!!!
This “tall” story is beaten by…….
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/8458822.stm
Wish I had thought of that……
Police have fun shocker….
The Oxford Mail, a less than police friendly publication seems to be behind the bobbies for once.
I know at least one of these cops, holder of QPM and a PC who is massively respected by the troops
http://nightjack2.wordpess.om/2008/05/14/police-assault/
There’s a few stereotype comments being posted here. Despite being over 6ft and 16 stone I always preferred to negotiate rather than use force. It was always a last resort.
The fact is though that if you don’t have physical presence you will have to back up your negotiating skills with force far more often. I worked an area near Glasgow for 2 years with a colleague the same height and a good bit heavier than me. We didn’t have a single resist arrest. I thereafter worked the same area with a colleague who had a great attitude and plenty bottle but was 5ft6 and skinny. We had several resist arrests. The fact is that while tactics and talking will resolve most situations there is always going to be times when brute force is required. Neds assess the odds when deciding to fight or not.
Another factor for height is safety in public order situations. As long as cops are at least average height or taller then if they are dispersed in a crowd they can still see each other and be seen by CCTV. At 5ft they are nearly
invisible.
Every fighting sport like wrestling and boxing use weight bands to make contests fair. All else being equal in any fight a heavier person has a huge advantage. The same factors apply when a cop is fighting with a suspect resisting arrest.
How many of us can honestly say that all else being equal they would rather walk in to a pub fight with a 5ft cop than a 6 ft cop beside you.
Height and physical strength and presence is smaller part of the job these days but pretending it doesn’t matter is dishonest.
Well said.
Ted
I call you out. Training training training.
Oh wait.. Yes sorry I forgot its only a few hours a year.
I rear-ended a car this morning. So, there we were, standing alongside the road, and a police car arrived. The officer hopped out.
You know how sometimes you just get so stressed by a traumatic event and little things seem funny? Yeah, well I couldn’t believe it…. He was a DWARF!!!
He walked over to me, peered up at me, and said, “I am not HAPPY!”
So I looked down at him and said, “Well then, which one are you?”
That’s when the trouble really began…
I would guess that the local scrotes will be making lots of remarks about Snow White etc. Although this officer says he is not bothered, if it is constant it will wear him down eventually. I suspect it is a senior officer having yet another example of ‘diversity in practise’ for the next promotion board!
as a short fella myself, I know this guy is going to face grief over his height, but it seems he has the right attitude.
When I was in Colchester, I noticed the doorstaff in clubs were smaller. I asked why and one of them told me that colchester was full of squaddies, and that big hulking meatheads were seen as a challenge, while smaller guys were more often left respectfully to get on with their job…
…just thought I’d drop that in there as an associated comment
Tony.
As a “highly trained MOP” who role acts in Recruit assessment centres I have to say that all sorts of shapes and sizes come through however the predominate one seems to be “overweight and wheezing”.
Which will probably open another can of worms if I were to mention fitness tests-both for recruits and serving officers-at all ranks.
Don’t even get me started. Still, an asthmatic paraplegic stands an even odds chance of passing the current ones.
ted- boxing etc has weights to make a contest fairer…
fighting is different.
Your remarks make sense – however, the most effective partner I had was an ordinary looking and sized bloke… even when the crap hit the fan …
Another favoured partner was a lady officer same build as me… (medium all the way…) she saved me a few times- and we worked in a busy metro city with lots of pubs and clubs…
also- i have worked with a few ‘bruisers’ that i would trust to sit the right way on a toilet…
any way… just my observations…
How big do you have to be to sit at a desk all day and fill in forms in triplicate?
A newly-promoted police chief has complained that he can no longer do his weekly supermarket shop because it’s ‘too dangerous’.
Peter Vaughan, who became head of South Wales police on New Year’s Day, said ‘security considerations’ meant he needed someone else to pick up his groceries.
The 46-year-old, whose new job pays £144,500 a year, spoke of his concerns despite crime in the area plummeting by more than 12 per cent in the past year.
He told Police Review magazine: ‘There are additional pressures now I am a chief constable.
‘I used to be able to walk around my local supermarket but now someone else will do my shopping for security reasons.’
He said that he missed doing his own shopping, adding: ‘It sounds strange but I liked going for a walk and taking a breather.’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1243224/Top-policeman-complains-shopping-dangerous.html#ixzz0cbglHxgH
Is this guy for real? He’s talking about South Wales not Afghanistan or NI and he’s not Simon Cowell.
I’m thinking deluded spineless twat. Tell me I’m wrong…
Think you have it spot on!!!!
Why do people who `do Martial Arts` think it`ll be any help when a pub erupts or footy match goes tits-up? Cons Port is in for shock if he encounters these situations ( not that he will in Tiverton) and thinks doing some dodgy Kung Fu will save his arse.
totally agree, all the martial arts training and stuff goes out the window when it goes off properly.
Ive done alot of boxing over the years and it has helped me, but only because i can see the punches coming, and im bloody good at getting out of the way of them – and quite rightly so!
However I wouldnt dream of jab,cross, hooking a scrote in the face unless the wheel really had come off. If i made a right mess of his face then itd be me that got the shit not him. sec 67 criminal law act seems to be ignored when it comes to psd, courts, and scrotey complaints.
im 5″8 and have had a few short arse comments, mainly because the other blokes on my shift are 6ft plus. and i have to agree from observation when they turn up, folk do think twice. dont know they psychology behind it they just do………
I agree with Sheriff Roscoe. I once worked with a dopey S.O.B who thought that as he went to martial arts he could sort out the bad boys in town. Trouble is he was really rubbish at fighting and couldn’t take a punch!
I sure hope that the yobbo’s on PC Port’s beat don’t take to passing him around. (Remember it’s to the left).
Surprised the Daily Mail put such a positive stance on it, I thought I would have slated it!
My first thought was this is PC gone mad but having read that he was in the army and served in Iraq and Northern Ireland, fair play I say.
I have it on good authority the force has spent thousands retrofitting a police car that now no one else can drive!
For those of you groaning on about low crime in Devon & Cornwall…remember they are only one of three forces in the Uk to ever suffer Islamic terrorist explosions and the only force outside London to suffer an attempt suicide bombing – ok one incident but that should put what D&C is really like in perspective.
http://www.inthenews.co.uk/news/crime/man-pleads-guilty-exeter-explosion-$1244896.htm.
For those of you that have commented on here about Ali Dezai be careful what you say. After all there was a suspicion that he was a spy for the Iranian Govt. Several allegations of impropriety against him, and he actually admitted during his 2003 trial of committing offences of calling a woman on the telephone and threatening her. Even Michael Mansfield made comment about the fact that it was not a pleasant thing to do. He made false allegations about his car being criminally damaged and where it was. Why?
What really gets me is the lily livered IPCC who refused to proceed with disciplinary action against him in 2004.
http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/pr160604_dizaei.htm
Absolutely a lot of bow locks!
It was also alleged that he has given advice to a law firm defending a woman accused of a hit and run offence that left a 54 year old university IT manager dead by the side of the road.
These are but allegations and other than what he admitted during his trial I make no other claim.
Commonsense copper, would now be the time to remind you that Devon and Cornwalls `Islamic Terrorist Bombing` you refer to was some Plymouth-born retard who only managed to singe his own eyebrows off in the bogs of a cafe? Hardly 7/7 stuff is it?
Physical presence can be an issue in how criminals react to an officer, regardless of his skill and competence. I’ve heard it asserted (anecdotally, but repeatedly and believably) that female officers and shorter officers in the US are more likely to be assaulted, more likely to be resisted when arresting and more likely to have a criminal try for their sidearm. Fair or not, martial artist or not, at a macro level height and strength minimums start to look very rational.
Would they have tried it with a big bloke? Still other officers were able to get there in 5 minutes.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/8460655.stm
I think Mr Vaughan in South Wales is looking for a body guard, he might be the new CC but he apparently is frightened to shop in Tesco because of his new status!
T@@@er!
Daily Mail: “The 29-year-old constable has made an impressive 17 arrests in his first month on the beat for the Devon and Cornwall force.”
Sir Robert Peel: “Whether the police are effective is not measured on the number of arrests, but on the lack of crime.”
What a long way we’ve come!
HEY! A Metro Gnome!!
I KNOW! It would work better if they were London coppers, but could not resist it).
I was told by my first boss that if you have to lay hands on someone you have lost your authority and that in this firm (not the police) we measure our Officers from the neck up not the neck down. He was an ex shakey boat and never so much as raised his voice even in life threatening situations
Dezai is probably a wrong un but you must wait until all the evidence is in. If he was so dodgy how come he got to the rank he has?
Is it scum and cream rise to the top or a bit of enforced PC
Gary at 2.26 Maybe Vaughan should use a minimart