I had a UA shirt on today.
I was shocked to find that it didn’t seem to help at all…
I did feel slightly less “wet” at the end of the shift though.. so I must say that the moisture wicking element was a little better than a normal shirt.. but didn’t really keep me cooler like it’s supposed to/advertised to.
I wore those t shirts when I had a covert vest in 1999 before we were issued overt ones. Gotta say I didn’t find them much better than a normal t-shirt.
And when you stop to have an ice cream outside of a local shop and one of your ‘beat officer’ colleagues dobs you in to a Sgt………… (insert expletive comments here)
I asked a few friends what they would think if they saw a fully kitted up officer eating an ice cream standing beside his car.. then having a long drink and getting back in to the sweat box and driving off.. they thought that it was admirable that I was still wearing my armour!
they’re meant to work because the’ve got ribbed bits to channel the airflow under the armour… or so the salesman told me.
its the firearms chaps i feel sorry for in they’re heavy vests
Yeah, a friend of mine who has just joined told me the same story. Before they went out into the car park of the training centre to do a role play, they had a ‘briefing’ telling them to wear their flourescent vests and put their flourescent jackets over the top.
When the question was asked whether they could chose which to wear rather than wear both, they were handed the H&S risk assessment which told them that the car park had been assessed as a high risk location and, in order to alleviate the risk they MUST wear both.
It was 26 degrees at the time, the temperature apparantley not being a H&S concern.
12 hours, body armour, no refs (so you can’t piss and are loathed to put away the 4-6 litres of fluids a day you’ll need to keep going) upwards of 30 degrees in the city centre – fast track to dehydration and a migraine from hell.
Don’t let that stop the targets for ‘I’ grades of arrests though.
gets me how the us cops get the neat covert ones that are worn closer to the body, and therefore more efficient. im sure a few american cities combined have more cops than the whole uk, yet they get the gucci kit no problem.
here?
well the ’shirts’ if you can call them that, are a joke. theyre cheap, bleached, and retain heat whilst holding sweat remarkably.
heavy ‘fire retardant’ trousers are also issued in black which make you sweat good and proper.
added to that if you want a flask of water then youve got to be on the psu to get one issued regardless of the heat.
and just when you get back to get some precious liquid its “anyone free for an immediate please? kylie and wayne are having another ‘violent domestic’”
in the words of you gaffer, you really couldnt make it up!
alex (whos happiest when skiiing, in snow, or generally nice and cool)
You’re kidding right?Ok, I used to live in the town that was home to the biggest Kevlar user in the US. But the officers themselves…..
I now live 60 miles away. And I’ll tell you this, it’s a cool day today, only hitting 27C – its been 35+ for the past month. HOWEVER, all the cars in this county of 10,000 people (thats 7 in the main city, and 15 for the county which is approximately the size of GM constabulary) have AC. They also wear the covert vest for one simple reason – an overt vest would interfere with access to the belt, and that means the gun, the pepper spray, and the cuffs, mainly the gun.
But, they get the equipment, but not the training. I’ll deal with the coppers in my hometown of Liverpool (I’ve never had a bad experience with them, but that was before the ANPR crap too, since i moved out here 6 years ago) any day before the local guys. They’re clueless. Read the training comments for more.
MCM – The Isotonic drinks help a lot in reducing the dehydration headaches after a long hot shift, as does skimmed milk, OJ (not simpson) and similar.
Once upon a time in a country (not) far far away i had a job that required long hours in the hot sun in a safety vest and hat, always worked a treat for me.
definitely, that’s why I always carry a couple of lucozades in the daysack and I bought a slab of orange juice to go on the carrier today!! many a long bike trek taught me that one, and as camelbak have always said on their t-shirts ‘hydrate or die!!’
Once upon a time, in a land far away, I trudged along under the hot sun, in temperatures of 35C+ in the shade, with humidity above 95%, in my 6kg flak jacket and steel helmet, with a 30-35kg pack, 500 rounds of linked 7.62 NATO, and a 10.5kg M60. Every day since then has felt cool.
If you’ve got an elephant, someone else will have a bag to put it in.
I don’t think anyone is disrespecting the admirable and courageous efforts of the Armed Forces guys and gals who, let’s face it, have bigger issues to worry about than wearing a stabby on a hot British summer’s day.
But the majority of police officers haven’t ever experienced 35C+ in the shade whilst carrying 2000 rounds of .50 cal depleted-uranium shells for their 40kg chaingun, 8 stone body armour and their 100kg dying mate slung over their shoulder (etc etc) (and yes, I know I’m vastly exagerating but it’s to make a point) whilst under fire from nameless insurgents.
As a result, 30C with 6kg of armour (or whatever it is) is the worst they’ve had to deal with. But it’s still the *worst*. Whatever your definition for ‘the worst’ is, relatively speaking, you’re still going to bitch about it as much as the next person.
Threw my stabbie in the back of the panda today and put it on before going to jobs, not many, as everyone drinking and letting us have a Q tour of duty. Thunder storms are fantastic for policing. Glad I’m not on nights though.
Thank god for the air con in the panda for once something working on the car.
My stabbie might be dry by tomorrow afternoon, thank god for fabreeze to stop the waft of body odour, well it works for an hour.
Wish I was still on CID in my air conditioned office sipping cool drinks and not having to get stressed, until being turned out in the middle of the night to deal with the next life threatening assault that will present itself.
A nice cold pint or two off lates, a cold shower and a very hot night in bed!
Speaking of Pandas, our NPT has 2 in the office (for 15 staff overall) and this week is the last week we have them as it has been deemed by the MSU to take them away and make us walk everywhere.
It takes me 50 minutes to walk to my beat and 50 minutes to walk back. Also seems to have gone unnoticed that many officers on our NPT (myself included) probably attend as many Grade 1s as the newer RPT staff, so I am sure that they will find the loss of a potential 8 officers per shift to respond (across two NPTs) a godsend…
our intitial covert vests in the late 90’s were dontated from LAPD as they were appalled at the time we were not issued body armour amd we paid about £10 each to have one. I remember being disctinctly cooler and more agile in one. Also it dosent show up your vulnerable areas as much.
I’m not knocking the Police, far from it, but try running around Helmand in 45+ degrees wearing a set of our ‘Osprey’ body armour. It weighs 6kg. Then there is weapons, ammunition, water, first aid kit, radios etc etc.
@Squaddie-on-tour, my old job body armour did weigh 6 kilos
I’m now looking forward to 45 degree heat, in an Osprey. Somehow don’t think I’ll get a Mark 7 lid before I go tho. Because all the armour is kept in theatre I’ve never even seen a real Osprey in basic training.
Thank god for the Health and Safety stalinists. We’ve had the obligatory email you come to expect these days – drink more water and take your ties off! No shit sherlock!
Oi! I’m an H&S Officer – and yes, I sent out the obligatory email today. It’s amazing the number of people who simply don’t drink enough water; I’m sometimes as bad. (Hint: If your piss is anything darker than pale yellow, you’re not drinking enough water.)
However, if this weather lasted 10 days, I’d be treating one or more people for heat exhaustion.
Perhaps you could email our health and safety officer and inform them that the biggest risk to my health and safety is 10 hours of footpatrol dressed all in black with a crap hat on, rather than sipping from a bottle of water bought at my own expense
It’s hard to “drink more” when you left the nick 8.5 hours ago with 750 mls of squash watered down to be weak.. You’ve been to 7 jobs, the latest of which has taken up your last 1.5 hours directing traffic in the sun…
As a consequence my piss is almost orange in colour at the end of most shifts at the moment!
Oh, but I heard that the job won’t issue proper water bottles to us because someone could trip over and injure themselves on a water bottle!!! (That was from H&S office as a reason!)
And even if we were issued a water bottle the same stands that when you’ve been out for that long with no chance to stop as you continually spend your time at “i” grade calls and going from one to the other you still cannot drink more as you’ve plainly just run out of liquid to consume (oh yeah, and you can’t piss it out again as you are standing in the middle of an “A” road waving your arms about at people in a stupid yellow thing because people cannot seem to notice the 6 foot idiot dressed in black and white standing in the sun beside a police car with flashing lights!!)
Anyway.. sorry, I’m not having a go at you but it’d be nice if we had peeps going around bringing water out to those stuck on jobs or perhaps relieving us once in a while (but we’d need more Frontline officers to do that and a few less on specialist “squads”!)
Squaddie on Tour – as an ex army bod myself I can agree with (did August one year in NI in an old INIBA) however, a tour is a tour – cops do it without a break for years and years! not that it competes with the heat and danger of ops though! come and join us when you are done?
Gadget, joining the police is one of the options that I’m looking at when I eventually leave the army. I’ve worked with a number of forces in the past, including the RUC (gone but not forgotten) and several in SE England. It’s getting the timing right, what with this credit-crunch thing.
Hate to say it but we complained when we did not have personal issue armour……….
I would rather have it and sweat thanks…….
Take it off in the nick and go out with a bottle of water in the car / bike….. if you are lucky enough to be on foot, well get with the community and find your self some olf fashioned tea stops to take water on board…
Squaddie on Tour
I hope you get to my age in one piece and enjoy telling sand bucket stories to those that do NOT want to hear them.
Maybe, you can enjoy some Kipling stories.
Too many from the Isles have spilled their life’s blud in those foreign lands, only for only a few to enjoy the profits.
Stick a bottle of water in the freezer overnight (at least 10 hours for 750ml) and take that to work with you.
As the ice melts, you’ll have ice-cold water for a while and you can top it up with drinking water from time to time. It could last half a shift or more.
1.The only time I put my body armour on was when I went INTO the nick….I reckoned there was more chance of being stabbed in the back inside than out….
2.Like MarkUK I find it difficult to understand why the Scots cops had to resign for doing no more than any other sexually active young people would be doing….when you compare what they did with the number of officers who are not dismissed or reinstated on appeal following instances of theft gratuitous assault lying etc….Perhaps they should have said that this was part of a religious ceremony!!!
3.Grow your own-Actually not a bad idea…One of the reasons that so many people are idle wasters is that they have never received the life skills necessary to survive..when I was at school the less able were put on CSE gardening courses which taught them the practical skills necessary to feed a family…there were veg and fruit plots.Now if we could get even a small percentage interested and stop making it appear as though its only for the middle class then perhaps they will get exercise in the fresh air eat proper grub instead of ready meals from Nettos and they will lose weight as well…..
We got the call two night ago from the duty guv for us to put our ties on, he stated it was cool enough at night for us to wear them. Not a bad shout from someone in an air con office 22 mile away. The display on the panda stated 25 degrees.
Funnily enough no one put ties on, after all the idiot was 22 miles away.
As for the stabby, with ties off it is bearable. We have alot of knife/weapon jobs on my patch along with 3 large M/H hotels so it is needed alot of the time.
As a CBRN officer I get an issued camelback and rig it to my stabby when very hot and on foot, but I spend most of my time in a panda which thankfully has air con.
One real bonus with the weather and working in a large university city is the solar powered sun bunnies to look at
sums up the quality control of top brass,
of course in my day, they would have ye on bicycle with a nice sheep skin lined topcoat that the sheep had let go for his cooler summer.
I saw some schoolkids today (not from the school I work at) wearing ties.
Whilst I like to see a good uniform, wearing ties in this weather is simply ridiculous unless you spend all your time in an aircon office. Most schools don’t have that kind of aircon.
Until recently I’d worked exclusively in manufacturing. Apart from some tw*ts in National Head Office at one company (which could be a fashion parade at times), absolutely no one wore a tie, summer or winter.
Let’s leave ties with cummerbunds – great for a formal occasion, but very optional the rest of the time.
In the “good old days” I believe there were a number of forces who used to issue white helmets for summer wear-anyone remember this or actually wore one?
Might be better than my flat cap when directing traffic at an RTI… oh it’s horrible, the sweat just builds up under it!! (Why do we even have to wear a hat??? most other countries don’t bother do they?)
Brighton Borough force (pre 1968) used to wear them between the 1st May to 30th Sep. 0600 – 1800 as ‘Day helmets’. My father in law was a serving officer at the time. They were sold off to Bermuda on amalgamation to become Sussex Police.
Oh well, it seems the boffins at a Metro-city University are in the process of creating a new vest, which is made from, wait for it! concrete!!! That moulds to the body. Better than the current alloy thingy plate currently issued apparently. In this heat i cant help but cast my mind to thoughts of sticky chewing gum on a pavement, in the blearing sun, having found its way to the bottom a boots sole, nice!
The only good thing about those crappy Sherpa Vans we used to have in Metro City was that you could drive round town in stifling heat with the drivers and passenger door slid open. No air-con in those days.
GOOOOODDDDD DAAAAMMMM ITS WARM TODAY FELLOW DEFENDERS OF THE REALM!!!!!!
however i am now nursing a nice lager shandy (off duty of course, im not in CID) and sat in the shade.
meanwhile up north today i had to stifle mirth (not very succesfully) as we placed a ‘regular service user’ into a cell. as i left him and came home i hear he was still kicking off about how stifling his cell is……..
clearly the systems failed him and i feel absolutely dreadful for him………. no honestly i do…………
I’d like to throw this one into the melting pot……today I was told that I should no longer wear the summer issue shirt, you know, the white blouse thing with the open collar – not made to wear a tie with.
The Supernintendo has decided they don’t look nice anymore and we sgould revert to the normal white collared shirt, (mit tie of course).
Unless our local supervisor decides it is really hot and then we can (with thier OK) remove ties and undo one button. As long as everyone does it, we can’t have some ties on, some off.
Unbel-bloody-leivable. I really can’t do much more than shake my head and wonder about ‘managers’ like this who are such tw*ts.
Incidentally, in Feb when we had a low of -10 in my farce area, the same Supt actually said to me, “This cold spell is really something isn’t it? I’m worried that the cars haven’t been washed for a couple of days.”
“gets me how the us cops get the neat covert ones that are worn closer to the body, and therefore more efficient. im sure a few american cities combined have more cops than the whole uk, yet they get the gucci kit no problem.”
–The temps you’re experiencing currently are “below average” for most of the U.S. from June-August or later. Heat exhaustion/stroke is a daily possibility for outdoor workers, not just during extreme conditions. In California, summer temps over 100F are not uncommon. (Not to mention working summertime wildfires, with even higher temps.)
–American police forces are primarily funded locally, not nationally. In metropolitan areas, they compete with other nearby localities for personnel, so pay and conditions have to be competitive.
–American police unions make it a contract issue.
You may also be overestimating the degree to which American officers’ vests are provided by their departments. (The high-tech ones, at least.) Vests are available from police-supply stores, so they can buy their own if they think there’s something better than what their department provides, or their department doesn’t provide any. (So can the criminals they police.)
I actualy did a bit of research on this a while ago.
It turns out that UK spec body armour has to be both ballistic and stab resistant. And despite all the increases in technology, there is still no vest that can do both without being a fraction thinner than a ballistic vest and a stab vest worn over each other.
So in the US and most other countries in the western world, officers on the street wear ballistic vests, and prison officers wear stab vests (ie the particular bit of kit for what the main risk is)…hence why it is so much thinner.
But why dont the guys on the “sharp” end need protection from blades you may ask?
Simple, they already do. Its usually supplied by Glock.
So thats why you are sweating buckets guys. Tradition and public image.
Yes, it has been bloody hot. We have had to deal with an amazing number of ‘Stella related’ incidents… aka the dreaded T29.
The second generation metvest is a good bit of kit as long as it is fitted properly and worn properly. The real problem here in Metro City and in several other forces is the lovely cotton/polyester shirts that we have to wear underneath and those wool/polyester trousers that are so lovely for a long walk on a hot day.
I just took delivery of my new pair of Oakley SI boots which are ideal in the hot weather… I definately don’t miss my old firearms bod though, that was damn hot…
Maximum respect to the boys and girls in Afghanistan who have much more to carry and would probabl relish a drunken domestic instead of a Taliban ambush… Stay safe.
Talking of Afghanistan, may I drift off-topic and share with you lovely people?
Yesterday my 16yr old son announced that he wants to join the Army (23 Regiment Royal Engineers Paratroop Combat Support).
He’s been in the Air Cadets (???) for just over a year and has got his first ‘promotion’ to leading Cadet.
Mrs Biker and I THOUGHT he was going to stay on at school to do his A levels, then go for Pilot Officer in the RAF.
Now it’s all turned upside down and he wants to join the Army, NOW.
Went to the Army Careers office and they advised him that there’s no point in taking A levels unless he wants to join as an Officer (he doesn’t), so he might as well start the application process asap.
It all seems a bit sudden. A few weeks ago we had a young boy who was staying on to take A levels and was wanting to be a helicopter pilot in the RAF. Now we have a young man who could be just a few months away from leaving home and becoming a soldier.
Mrs Biker has gone into default ‘protective mum’ mode and is quite distressed by it (though we both knew that our son would eventually end up in the armed forces). It’s just happened too soon for her.
Bit of a dilemma for me too. I look at the boy and see a spotty faced kid who’s (technically) still at school. I remember changing his nappies. I also see a fine, fit young man who is as tall as me and has hairy legs, ready to take his first independent strides out into the big wide world. He could be in Afghanistan before his 19th birthday.
I’m simultaneously proud of him and scared for him.
Just wanted to share these thoughts. Guv, sorry to have hijacked the thread. Please delete if necessary.
The Careers Office will probably tell your son this, but there is NO guarantee that he will be posted to 23 Engr Regt. When he finishes Phase 2 training he will be posted to wherever there is a vacancy in his trade. If there are some at 23 at that time he may get lucky, otherwise could can end up anywhere. Has he decided which trade he wants to go for yet?
If you have a look on the Army website and find the RE pages there is a list of the major RE units, their locations and a brief spiel about about what each one does. It will also tell you a bit about RE trades. All RE soldiers do the basic combat engineer course and the specialise before going to a Unit.
Personally I would encourage him to stay on and do his A levels. He may only do a few years in the Army and then find that he needs them in order to secure subsequent employment. In addition, the 22 year structure and eligibility for the Army pension scheme only start at age 18.
I had my 24th birthday in basic training after doing A levels and a degree and I’m a Sergeant, (not RE though).
The boy has just spent an hour on an Army recruitment website chatroom where you can get help and advice.
The Staff Sgt ‘on duty’ this evening has advised him to stay at school and get the A levels.
My son agrees and that’s where we are at the moment. Back to school in September. Meanwhile, more factfinding about the Army. Apparently you can do a sort of tryout/familiarisation weekend which gives you a flavour of Army life so we’ll book up one of those and take it from there.
Glad to hear it, gone are the days of being the butcher boy and the RAF paying for flying lessons.
I spent my ill gotten youth crawlin’ around pine needles looking for the way to Aldershot rather than looking for the way to the RMA.
I was in a similar position around his age – was going for Pilot Officer in the RAF, luckily had completed my A-levels and was set up for a scholarship at university.
Then, for no apparent reason (even to myself!!!), I had a complete change of heart and joined the police.
Sometimes kids (or young adults if you prefer) are subject to some bizarre decision-making processes which, in later life, may not stand up to much scrutiny. I’m glad your son has thought about it again – not taking his A-levels would be a very bad move for his future life, certainly when he leaves the Forces and tries to find a job in civvy-street.
Ex Traffic Biker – he sounds like a fine and admirable young manof whom you can be rightly proud. Good luck to him in his chosen venture. My boys are 12 and 13, I have this pain yet to come.
I see that Notts Police have referred the death of 2 police dogs left in a car to the IPCC-Why?
The Chief could quite easily deal with this matter on discipline however the IPCC seems to have become a protective blanket that Chiefs use when they dont actually want to get a grip themselves-as Robert Mark one of the best Met Commissioners ever pointed out all those years ago.
Olivers Army
Suggest you get the useless Fed Reps to point out to the Supt that these shirts were issued for a reason and if that Supt wishes to change Force Policy perhaps he/she should speak to the Chief about it.And dont forget to submit a clothing application for more non summer shirts and a H&S form about you have been denied proper kit in the hot weather.
If you keep accepting what these idiots say then you will carry on getting idiots.
Ex-Traffic Biker I think you should have a word and quick.
Just what is he willing to risk death or be terribly maimed for? A failed enterprise dubious in its legality.
Where the wounded (physically and mentally) are still relying on charity on their return as MP’s fiddle expenses, award themselves pay rises and escape prosecution.
I wouldn’t want my son to sacrifice his life for this government.
I wouldn’t want my son maimed for this government.
I wouldn’t want my son to risk his life for a country in such a parlous state as the UK, where his efforts, his sacrifice is of absolutely no interest to the majority of the population and where a sizable minority of so called British Citizens would celebrate his death or maiming.
A difficult time for you all and I hope sense prevails – Afghanistan, Iraq and wherever next are not the adventures and just causes of the past.
On other topics – Police Dogs Dead? Prosecute the handler(S) responsible – simple.
Hi-Viz – Why is there STILL no common sense. At a village fete in Kent over the weekend I saw three Kent officers sweating their knackers off in full kit, vets and hi-viz. Nonsense.
As opposed to spending lots of cash on lucozade and the like, you can knock your own rehydrate drink up:
stir one level teaspoon of salt, and eight level teaspoons of sugar, into one litre (5 cupfuls) of tap water (or halve those amounts in a pint of water).
The above is the World Health Organisation’s “rehydration recipe” to treat people suffering from things like cholera (and has saved 3 million lives a year for the past two decades). I read about it on Dr. Ben Goldacre’s Bad Science blog. http://www.badscience.net/2008/11/hot-foul-air/
It’s detailed on 10 and 11th Paragraph.
Might help deal with the under armour excess heat problem. And possibly hangovers.
They are now putting down flowers at the scene of the dead dogs…ye Gods..What were they called?..Michael and Jackson?
Still at least they werent tazered….
As the Notts CC is so fond of equations heres one….
HD+DIC+TDH+PPM=DD
Where HD=Hot Day DIC=Dogs in car TDH=Thick Dog Handler PPM=Piss Poor Management and DD=Dead Dogs
Its funny that with the instances in the media about Notts we never ever hear from the CC-perhaps she is not up to it
Some years ago, in my old force each dog handler had his own van which was taken home and used for journeys to and from work. ACPO ranks decided as a cost cutting measure that handlers would have to share a van and this meant that the dogs sometimes had to be transported in their own private vehicles. Now all those years ago the Police dog vans were air conditioned. Is the death of these dogs down to being trasported in a non Police vechicle in order to save money? — Well that worked didn’t it!!!
Retired nine months
Perhaps thats why things were done as they were-it was cheaper it was more efficient and provided a better service to the public.
Also we used to have 3 dog handlers per division who lived in the area where they worked.One was always on call every night so if we had “persons on” the local on call handler would be given a quick call and he/she would be there quickly-now there are handlers working nights who are charging round the county like maniacs and take ages to get to you-Still there is always the helicopter-oh no its raining/foggy/sunny/cloudy/cant afford the fuel/ etc…
Heat
Cold
Tactical…..for wearing under body armour
If you want it to perform under body armour make sure you have the right gear, you can’t go wrong, it has TACTICAL printed on it and a space for your regimental/police number
I’m told UnderArmour tshirts can help you deal with the heat while in body armour.
I had a UA shirt on today.
I was shocked to find that it didn’t seem to help at all…
I did feel slightly less “wet” at the end of the shift though.. so I must say that the moisture wicking element was a little better than a normal shirt.. but didn’t really keep me cooler like it’s supposed to/advertised to.
I wore those t shirts when I had a covert vest in 1999 before we were issued overt ones. Gotta say I didn’t find them much better than a normal t-shirt.
The shock (presumably) is that you’re still having to wear full kit in the heat with few-no ref’s?
And when you stop to have an ice cream outside of a local shop and one of your ‘beat officer’ colleagues dobs you in to a Sgt………… (insert expletive comments here)
I asked a few friends what they would think if they saw a fully kitted up officer eating an ice cream standing beside his car.. then having a long drink and getting back in to the sweat box and driving off.. they thought that it was admirable that I was still wearing my armour!
they’re meant to work because the’ve got ribbed bits to channel the airflow under the armour… or so the salesman told me.
its the firearms chaps i feel sorry for in they’re heavy vests
I saw some probationers today doing role plays.
They were being made to wear their fluorescent vests underneath their fluorescent jackets.
All in the name of H&S.
Yeah, a friend of mine who has just joined told me the same story. Before they went out into the car park of the training centre to do a role play, they had a ‘briefing’ telling them to wear their flourescent vests and put their flourescent jackets over the top.
When the question was asked whether they could chose which to wear rather than wear both, they were handed the H&S risk assessment which told them that the car park had been assessed as a high risk location and, in order to alleviate the risk they MUST wear both.
It was 26 degrees at the time, the temperature apparantley not being a H&S concern.
12 hours, body armour, no refs (so you can’t piss and are loathed to put away the 4-6 litres of fluids a day you’ll need to keep going) upwards of 30 degrees in the city centre – fast track to dehydration and a migraine from hell.
Don’t let that stop the targets for ‘I’ grades of arrests though.
gets me how the us cops get the neat covert ones that are worn closer to the body, and therefore more efficient. im sure a few american cities combined have more cops than the whole uk, yet they get the gucci kit no problem.
here?
well the ’shirts’ if you can call them that, are a joke. theyre cheap, bleached, and retain heat whilst holding sweat remarkably.
heavy ‘fire retardant’ trousers are also issued in black which make you sweat good and proper.
added to that if you want a flask of water then youve got to be on the psu to get one issued regardless of the heat.
and just when you get back to get some precious liquid its “anyone free for an immediate please? kylie and wayne are having another ‘violent domestic’”
in the words of you gaffer, you really couldnt make it up!
alex (whos happiest when skiiing, in snow, or generally nice and cool)
You’re kidding right?Ok, I used to live in the town that was home to the biggest Kevlar user in the US. But the officers themselves…..
I now live 60 miles away. And I’ll tell you this, it’s a cool day today, only hitting 27C – its been 35+ for the past month. HOWEVER, all the cars in this county of 10,000 people (thats 7 in the main city, and 15 for the county which is approximately the size of GM constabulary) have AC. They also wear the covert vest for one simple reason – an overt vest would interfere with access to the belt, and that means the gun, the pepper spray, and the cuffs, mainly the gun.
But, they get the equipment, but not the training. I’ll deal with the coppers in my hometown of Liverpool (I’ve never had a bad experience with them, but that was before the ANPR crap too, since i moved out here 6 years ago) any day before the local guys. They’re clueless. Read the training comments for more.
At least we were issued with ‘camel backs’. It was warm water after a few hours but a drink is a drink.
MCM – The Isotonic drinks help a lot in reducing the dehydration headaches after a long hot shift, as does skimmed milk, OJ (not simpson) and similar.
Once upon a time in a country (not) far far away i had a job that required long hours in the hot sun in a safety vest and hat, always worked a treat for me.
definitely, that’s why I always carry a couple of lucozades in the daysack and I bought a slab of orange juice to go on the carrier today!! many a long bike trek taught me that one, and as camelbak have always said on their t-shirts ‘hydrate or die!!’
Once upon a time, in a land far away, I trudged along under the hot sun, in temperatures of 35C+ in the shade, with humidity above 95%, in my 6kg flak jacket and steel helmet, with a 30-35kg pack, 500 rounds of linked 7.62 NATO, and a 10.5kg M60. Every day since then has felt cool.
If you’ve got an elephant, someone else will have a bag to put it in.
I don’t think anyone is disrespecting the admirable and courageous efforts of the Armed Forces guys and gals who, let’s face it, have bigger issues to worry about than wearing a stabby on a hot British summer’s day.
But the majority of police officers haven’t ever experienced 35C+ in the shade whilst carrying 2000 rounds of .50 cal depleted-uranium shells for their 40kg chaingun, 8 stone body armour and their 100kg dying mate slung over their shoulder (etc etc) (and yes, I know I’m vastly exagerating but it’s to make a point) whilst under fire from nameless insurgents.
As a result, 30C with 6kg of armour (or whatever it is) is the worst they’ve had to deal with. But it’s still the *worst*. Whatever your definition for ‘the worst’ is, relatively speaking, you’re still going to bitch about it as much as the next person.
Our amazing yellow (but not hi vis) armour is also manufactured with a heat management system. Well, it can be, but ours isn’t of course…..
Still, at least I don’t have to wear a big daft black hat with a thick padded inner rim on my head to walk around in! Oh wait…….
Threw my stabbie in the back of the panda today and put it on before going to jobs, not many, as everyone drinking and letting us have a Q tour of duty. Thunder storms are fantastic for policing. Glad I’m not on nights though.
Thank god for the air con in the panda for once something working on the car.
My stabbie might be dry by tomorrow afternoon, thank god for fabreeze to stop the waft of body odour, well it works for an hour.
Wish I was still on CID in my air conditioned office sipping cool drinks and not having to get stressed, until being turned out in the middle of the night to deal with the next life threatening assault that will present itself.
A nice cold pint or two off lates, a cold shower and a very hot night in bed!
Life’s great.
Speaking of Pandas, our NPT has 2 in the office (for 15 staff overall) and this week is the last week we have them as it has been deemed by the MSU to take them away and make us walk everywhere.
It takes me 50 minutes to walk to my beat and 50 minutes to walk back. Also seems to have gone unnoticed that many officers on our NPT (myself included) probably attend as many Grade 1s as the newer RPT staff, so I am sure that they will find the loss of a potential 8 officers per shift to respond (across two NPTs) a godsend…
Never mind…
Fours hours on a road closure in the sun, no offers of relief or refreshments…oh wait, that’s because there wasn’t anyone else!
Oh well, pays the mortgage!
I wouldn’t change my job for anyone elses.
It’s still the best job in the world.
“It’s still the best job in the world.”
(Discounting the unmerited position of a crude man.)
Shove it up your pipe.
How’s that for crude?
our intitial covert vests in the late 90’s were dontated from LAPD as they were appalled at the time we were not issued body armour amd we paid about £10 each to have one. I remember being disctinctly cooler and more agile in one. Also it dosent show up your vulnerable areas as much.
I’m not knocking the Police, far from it, but try running around Helmand in 45+ degrees wearing a set of our ‘Osprey’ body armour. It weighs 6kg. Then there is weapons, ammunition, water, first aid kit, radios etc etc.
Can’t we just moan in peace with out someone showing us all up to be the pathetic pansies we really are?
At least you have a nice view, rather than sofas pushed into the front gardens of scruffy houses and adorned with jobless drunks
You’re of course right though, it’s somewhat safer and cooler here
@Squaddie-on-tour, my old job body armour did weigh 6 kilos
I’m now looking forward to 45 degree heat, in an Osprey. Somehow don’t think I’ll get a Mark 7 lid before I go tho. Because all the armour is kept in theatre I’ve never even seen a real Osprey in basic training.
Well, they’ve found a novel way to keep cool at the Scottish training college …
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2507597/Four-trainee-police-officers-are-thrown-out-over-a-sex-scandal.html
Maybe they were trying to save water as well as staying cool?
Surely what they get up to in their own time is their affair – literally, perhaps. I obviously exclude anything illegal.
Is there no senior officer in Scotland that has done something similar?
Squaddie on Tour – respect to you and yours and may you all sweat safe
Thank god for the Health and Safety stalinists. We’ve had the obligatory email you come to expect these days – drink more water and take your ties off! No shit sherlock!
Oi! I’m an H&S Officer – and yes, I sent out the obligatory email today. It’s amazing the number of people who simply don’t drink enough water; I’m sometimes as bad. (Hint: If your piss is anything darker than pale yellow, you’re not drinking enough water.)
However, if this weather lasted 10 days, I’d be treating one or more people for heat exhaustion.
Perhaps you could email our health and safety officer and inform them that the biggest risk to my health and safety is 10 hours of footpatrol dressed all in black with a crap hat on, rather than sipping from a bottle of water bought at my own expense
MarkUK,
It’s hard to “drink more” when you left the nick 8.5 hours ago with 750 mls of squash watered down to be weak.. You’ve been to 7 jobs, the latest of which has taken up your last 1.5 hours directing traffic in the sun…
As a consequence my piss is almost orange in colour at the end of most shifts at the moment!
Oh, but I heard that the job won’t issue proper water bottles to us because someone could trip over and injure themselves on a water bottle!!! (That was from H&S office as a reason!)
And even if we were issued a water bottle the same stands that when you’ve been out for that long with no chance to stop as you continually spend your time at “i” grade calls and going from one to the other you still cannot drink more as you’ve plainly just run out of liquid to consume (oh yeah, and you can’t piss it out again as you are standing in the middle of an “A” road waving your arms about at people in a stupid yellow thing because people cannot seem to notice the 6 foot idiot dressed in black and white standing in the sun beside a police car with flashing lights!!)
Anyway.. sorry, I’m not having a go at you but it’d be nice if we had peeps going around bringing water out to those stuck on jobs or perhaps relieving us once in a while (but we’d need more Frontline officers to do that and a few less on specialist “squads”!)
Squaddie on Tour – as an ex army bod myself I can agree with (did August one year in NI in an old INIBA) however, a tour is a tour – cops do it without a break for years and years! not that it competes with the heat and danger of ops though! come and join us when you are done?
INIBA – Individual Northern Ireland Body Armour
Gadget, joining the police is one of the options that I’m looking at when I eventually leave the army. I’ve worked with a number of forces in the past, including the RUC (gone but not forgotten) and several in SE England. It’s getting the timing right, what with this credit-crunch thing.
I bet I know one area of policing that won’t notice the heatwave?. Answers on a postcard.
Shiney arse office jockeys?
On a post card, on a post card.
Now you ruined the competition. And i would have won too.
Hate to say it but we complained when we did not have personal issue armour……….
I would rather have it and sweat thanks…….
Take it off in the nick and go out with a bottle of water in the car / bike….. if you are lucky enough to be on foot, well get with the community and find your self some olf fashioned tea stops to take water on board…
rant over
Squaddie on Tour
I hope you get to my age in one piece and enjoy telling sand bucket stories to those that do NOT want to hear them.
Maybe, you can enjoy some Kipling stories.
Too many from the Isles have spilled their life’s blud in those foreign lands, only for only a few to enjoy the profits.
[I did it for 4 bob a day for four years.]
Stick a bottle of water in the freezer overnight (at least 10 hours for 750ml) and take that to work with you.
As the ice melts, you’ll have ice-cold water for a while and you can top it up with drinking water from time to time. It could last half a shift or more.
Its amazing how just five words in one sentence on a blog can invoke so many replies! (like this one!)
Anyway so long as we have this nice weather, any one growing their own Veg should be pleased.
Including this crazy suggestion…..
http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/4462057.Give_criminals_green_fingers___Foster/
The fifth paragraph ……Jesus!
Where’s my Apple …chomp chomp
Jesus … sleep well.
What is it they say – give a man a fish – he will eat, teach a man to fish and he will feed his family.
With this – teach a man to grow greens, he will abuse the system and grow Cannabis.
Three points…
1.The only time I put my body armour on was when I went INTO the nick….I reckoned there was more chance of being stabbed in the back inside than out….
2.Like MarkUK I find it difficult to understand why the Scots cops had to resign for doing no more than any other sexually active young people would be doing….when you compare what they did with the number of officers who are not dismissed or reinstated on appeal following instances of theft gratuitous assault lying etc….Perhaps they should have said that this was part of a religious ceremony!!!
3.Grow your own-Actually not a bad idea…One of the reasons that so many people are idle wasters is that they have never received the life skills necessary to survive..when I was at school the less able were put on CSE gardening courses which taught them the practical skills necessary to feed a family…there were veg and fruit plots.Now if we could get even a small percentage interested and stop making it appear as though its only for the middle class then perhaps they will get exercise in the fresh air eat proper grub instead of ready meals from Nettos and they will lose weight as well…..
We got the call two night ago from the duty guv for us to put our ties on, he stated it was cool enough at night for us to wear them. Not a bad shout from someone in an air con office 22 mile away. The display on the panda stated 25 degrees.
Funnily enough no one put ties on, after all the idiot was 22 miles away.
As for the stabby, with ties off it is bearable. We have alot of knife/weapon jobs on my patch along with 3 large M/H hotels so it is needed alot of the time.
As a CBRN officer I get an issued camelback and rig it to my stabby when very hot and on foot, but I spend most of my time in a panda which thankfully has air con.
One real bonus with the weather and working in a large university city is the solar powered sun bunnies to look at
sums up the quality control of top brass,
of course in my day, they would have ye on bicycle with a nice sheep skin lined topcoat that the sheep had let go for his cooler summer.
I saw some schoolkids today (not from the school I work at) wearing ties.
Whilst I like to see a good uniform, wearing ties in this weather is simply ridiculous unless you spend all your time in an aircon office. Most schools don’t have that kind of aircon.
Until recently I’d worked exclusively in manufacturing. Apart from some tw*ts in National Head Office at one company (which could be a fashion parade at times), absolutely no one wore a tie, summer or winter.
Let’s leave ties with cummerbunds – great for a formal occasion, but very optional the rest of the time.
I’m sorry, ties off? That must be a joke, surely?
Helluva shade to make them too-black. The colour must soak up the heat like a sponge when the sun shines.
In the “good old days” I believe there were a number of forces who used to issue white helmets for summer wear-anyone remember this or actually wore one?
I think that the IOM still wear them
Wasn’t there a thought about doing this again?
Might be better than my flat cap when directing traffic at an RTI… oh it’s horrible, the sweat just builds up under it!! (Why do we even have to wear a hat??? most other countries don’t bother do they?)
Brighton Borough force (pre 1968) used to wear them between the 1st May to 30th Sep. 0600 – 1800 as ‘Day helmets’. My father in law was a serving officer at the time. They were sold off to Bermuda on amalgamation to become Sussex Police.
Oh well, it seems the boffins at a Metro-city University are in the process of creating a new vest, which is made from, wait for it! concrete!!! That moulds to the body. Better than the current alloy thingy plate currently issued apparently. In this heat i cant help but cast my mind to thoughts of sticky chewing gum on a pavement, in the blearing sun, having found its way to the bottom a boots sole, nice!
The only good thing about those crappy Sherpa Vans we used to have in Metro City was that you could drive round town in stifling heat with the drivers and passenger door slid open. No air-con in those days.
GOOOOODDDDD DAAAAMMMM ITS WARM TODAY FELLOW DEFENDERS OF THE REALM!!!!!!
however i am now nursing a nice lager shandy (off duty of course, im not in CID) and sat in the shade.
meanwhile up north today i had to stifle mirth (not very succesfully) as we placed a ‘regular service user’ into a cell. as i left him and came home i hear he was still kicking off about how stifling his cell is……..
clearly the systems failed him and i feel absolutely dreadful for him………. no honestly i do…………
I’d like to throw this one into the melting pot……today I was told that I should no longer wear the summer issue shirt, you know, the white blouse thing with the open collar – not made to wear a tie with.
The Supernintendo has decided they don’t look nice anymore and we sgould revert to the normal white collared shirt, (mit tie of course).
Unless our local supervisor decides it is really hot and then we can (with thier OK) remove ties and undo one button. As long as everyone does it, we can’t have some ties on, some off.
Unbel-bloody-leivable. I really can’t do much more than shake my head and wonder about ‘managers’ like this who are such tw*ts.
Incidentally, in Feb when we had a low of -10 in my farce area, the same Supt actually said to me, “This cold spell is really something isn’t it? I’m worried that the cars haven’t been washed for a couple of days.”
Please help…….
Obviously promoted to his “Level of Incompetence” quite appropriately.
I feel for you my friend.
“gets me how the us cops get the neat covert ones that are worn closer to the body, and therefore more efficient. im sure a few american cities combined have more cops than the whole uk, yet they get the gucci kit no problem.”
–The temps you’re experiencing currently are “below average” for most of the U.S. from June-August or later. Heat exhaustion/stroke is a daily possibility for outdoor workers, not just during extreme conditions. In California, summer temps over 100F are not uncommon. (Not to mention working summertime wildfires, with even higher temps.)
–American police forces are primarily funded locally, not nationally. In metropolitan areas, they compete with other nearby localities for personnel, so pay and conditions have to be competitive.
–American police unions make it a contract issue.
You may also be overestimating the degree to which American officers’ vests are provided by their departments. (The high-tech ones, at least.) Vests are available from police-supply stores, so they can buy their own if they think there’s something better than what their department provides, or their department doesn’t provide any. (So can the criminals they police.)
I actualy did a bit of research on this a while ago.
It turns out that UK spec body armour has to be both ballistic and stab resistant. And despite all the increases in technology, there is still no vest that can do both without being a fraction thinner than a ballistic vest and a stab vest worn over each other.
So in the US and most other countries in the western world, officers on the street wear ballistic vests, and prison officers wear stab vests (ie the particular bit of kit for what the main risk is)…hence why it is so much thinner.
But why dont the guys on the “sharp” end need protection from blades you may ask?
Simple, they already do. Its usually supplied by Glock.
So thats why you are sweating buckets guys. Tradition and public image.
Yes, it has been bloody hot. We have had to deal with an amazing number of ‘Stella related’ incidents… aka the dreaded T29.
The second generation metvest is a good bit of kit as long as it is fitted properly and worn properly. The real problem here in Metro City and in several other forces is the lovely cotton/polyester shirts that we have to wear underneath and those wool/polyester trousers that are so lovely for a long walk on a hot day.
I just took delivery of my new pair of Oakley SI boots which are ideal in the hot weather… I definately don’t miss my old firearms bod though, that was damn hot…
Maximum respect to the boys and girls in Afghanistan who have much more to carry and would probabl relish a drunken domestic instead of a Taliban ambush… Stay safe.
angrymet:
It was very hot in the ballistic bod today.
Luckily the air con and ice creams put a dent in it slightly…..
Dont forget the police dogs in this hot weather!
Notts Police obviously did.
Off topic….I’ve just heard this said in the DMM: “Crime’s quite good against the linear target”.
Oh good! Let’s tell the victims.
DMM speak!
What does it mean?
Talking of Afghanistan, may I drift off-topic and share with you lovely people?
Yesterday my 16yr old son announced that he wants to join the Army (23 Regiment Royal Engineers Paratroop Combat Support).
He’s been in the Air Cadets (???) for just over a year and has got his first ‘promotion’ to leading Cadet.
Mrs Biker and I THOUGHT he was going to stay on at school to do his A levels, then go for Pilot Officer in the RAF.
Now it’s all turned upside down and he wants to join the Army, NOW.
Went to the Army Careers office and they advised him that there’s no point in taking A levels unless he wants to join as an Officer (he doesn’t), so he might as well start the application process asap.
It all seems a bit sudden. A few weeks ago we had a young boy who was staying on to take A levels and was wanting to be a helicopter pilot in the RAF. Now we have a young man who could be just a few months away from leaving home and becoming a soldier.
Mrs Biker has gone into default ‘protective mum’ mode and is quite distressed by it (though we both knew that our son would eventually end up in the armed forces). It’s just happened too soon for her.
Bit of a dilemma for me too. I look at the boy and see a spotty faced kid who’s (technically) still at school. I remember changing his nappies. I also see a fine, fit young man who is as tall as me and has hairy legs, ready to take his first independent strides out into the big wide world. He could be in Afghanistan before his 19th birthday.
I’m simultaneously proud of him and scared for him.
Just wanted to share these thoughts. Guv, sorry to have hijacked the thread. Please delete if necessary.
Ex Traffic Biker.
The Careers Office will probably tell your son this, but there is NO guarantee that he will be posted to 23 Engr Regt. When he finishes Phase 2 training he will be posted to wherever there is a vacancy in his trade. If there are some at 23 at that time he may get lucky, otherwise could can end up anywhere. Has he decided which trade he wants to go for yet?
If you have a look on the Army website and find the RE pages there is a list of the major RE units, their locations and a brief spiel about about what each one does. It will also tell you a bit about RE trades. All RE soldiers do the basic combat engineer course and the specialise before going to a Unit.
Personally I would encourage him to stay on and do his A levels. He may only do a few years in the Army and then find that he needs them in order to secure subsequent employment. In addition, the 22 year structure and eligibility for the Army pension scheme only start at age 18.
I had my 24th birthday in basic training after doing A levels and a degree and I’m a Sergeant, (not RE though).
Damn it, get him to get his A levels do not relegate him to the bottom third of earners.
Life is too hard with out a good education.
He can always be a PBI at any time, or toss spuds onto a lorry.
Find out why the sudden change. Why the change of dreams???????
With a good A Levels, he can be as lazy or any thing, As 50 % of school leavers get some kind of A level it is a necessary key to get the go light.
Squaddie, Dungbeetle et al.
The boy has just spent an hour on an Army recruitment website chatroom where you can get help and advice.
The Staff Sgt ‘on duty’ this evening has advised him to stay at school and get the A levels.
My son agrees and that’s where we are at the moment. Back to school in September. Meanwhile, more factfinding about the Army. Apparently you can do a sort of tryout/familiarisation weekend which gives you a flavour of Army life so we’ll book up one of those and take it from there.
Thanks to everyone for their advice and opinions.
Mrs Biker is currently ‘calming down’.
Glad to hear it, gone are the days of being the butcher boy and the RAF paying for flying lessons.
I spent my ill gotten youth crawlin’ around pine needles looking for the way to Aldershot rather than looking for the way to the RMA.
I was in a similar position around his age – was going for Pilot Officer in the RAF, luckily had completed my A-levels and was set up for a scholarship at university.
Then, for no apparent reason (even to myself!!!), I had a complete change of heart and joined the police.
Sometimes kids (or young adults if you prefer) are subject to some bizarre decision-making processes which, in later life, may not stand up to much scrutiny. I’m glad your son has thought about it again – not taking his A-levels would be a very bad move for his future life, certainly when he leaves the Forces and tries to find a job in civvy-street.
“Dont forget the police dogs in this hot weather!”
Too late:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/8129826.stm
Ex Traffic Biker – he sounds like a fine and admirable young manof whom you can be rightly proud. Good luck to him in his chosen venture. My boys are 12 and 13, I have this pain yet to come.
I see that Notts Police have referred the death of 2 police dogs left in a car to the IPCC-Why?
The Chief could quite easily deal with this matter on discipline however the IPCC seems to have become a protective blanket that Chiefs use when they dont actually want to get a grip themselves-as Robert Mark one of the best Met Commissioners ever pointed out all those years ago.
Olivers Army
Suggest you get the useless Fed Reps to point out to the Supt that these shirts were issued for a reason and if that Supt wishes to change Force Policy perhaps he/she should speak to the Chief about it.And dont forget to submit a clothing application for more non summer shirts and a H&S form about you have been denied proper kit in the hot weather.
If you keep accepting what these idiots say then you will carry on getting idiots.
Ex-Traffic Biker I think you should have a word and quick.
Just what is he willing to risk death or be terribly maimed for? A failed enterprise dubious in its legality.
Where the wounded (physically and mentally) are still relying on charity on their return as MP’s fiddle expenses, award themselves pay rises and escape prosecution.
I wouldn’t want my son to sacrifice his life for this government.
I wouldn’t want my son maimed for this government.
I wouldn’t want my son to risk his life for a country in such a parlous state as the UK, where his efforts, his sacrifice is of absolutely no interest to the majority of the population and where a sizable minority of so called British Citizens would celebrate his death or maiming.
A difficult time for you all and I hope sense prevails – Afghanistan, Iraq and wherever next are not the adventures and just causes of the past.
On other topics – Police Dogs Dead? Prosecute the handler(S) responsible – simple.
Hi-Viz – Why is there STILL no common sense. At a village fete in Kent over the weekend I saw three Kent officers sweating their knackers off in full kit, vets and hi-viz. Nonsense.
As opposed to spending lots of cash on lucozade and the like, you can knock your own rehydrate drink up:
stir one level teaspoon of salt, and eight level teaspoons of sugar, into one litre (5 cupfuls) of tap water (or halve those amounts in a pint of water).
The above is the World Health Organisation’s “rehydration recipe” to treat people suffering from things like cholera (and has saved 3 million lives a year for the past two decades). I read about it on Dr. Ben Goldacre’s Bad Science blog. http://www.badscience.net/2008/11/hot-foul-air/
It’s detailed on 10 and 11th Paragraph.
Might help deal with the under armour excess heat problem. And possibly hangovers.
Hmmm… surprisingly that doesn’t taste too bad.
They are now putting down flowers at the scene of the dead dogs…ye Gods..What were they called?..Michael and Jackson?
Still at least they werent tazered….
As the Notts CC is so fond of equations heres one….
HD+DIC+TDH+PPM=DD
Where HD=Hot Day DIC=Dogs in car TDH=Thick Dog Handler PPM=Piss Poor Management and DD=Dead Dogs
Its funny that with the instances in the media about Notts we never ever hear from the CC-perhaps she is not up to it
Some years ago, in my old force each dog handler had his own van which was taken home and used for journeys to and from work. ACPO ranks decided as a cost cutting measure that handlers would have to share a van and this meant that the dogs sometimes had to be transported in their own private vehicles. Now all those years ago the Police dog vans were air conditioned. Is the death of these dogs down to being trasported in a non Police vechicle in order to save money? — Well that worked didn’t it!!!
Retired nine months
Perhaps thats why things were done as they were-it was cheaper it was more efficient and provided a better service to the public.
Also we used to have 3 dog handlers per division who lived in the area where they worked.One was always on call every night so if we had “persons on” the local on call handler would be given a quick call and he/she would be there quickly-now there are handlers working nights who are charging round the county like maniacs and take ages to get to you-Still there is always the helicopter-oh no its raining/foggy/sunny/cloudy/cant afford the fuel/ etc…
Going back to the point of this thread:
There are three types of underamour:…
Heat
Cold
Tactical…..for wearing under body armour
If you want it to perform under body armour make sure you have the right gear, you can’t go wrong, it has TACTICAL printed on it and a space for your regimental/police number
Simples…..
Great post. this is what I looking for, thanks