Interesting Radio 4 Interview at the “Foundation 4 Life” youth project this morning.
They deliver ‘Behaviour Modification Workshops’ for young people who are offending or considered to be at risk of offending/ re-offending. Central to the F4L is their unique team of professionally trained reformed ex-offenders/gang leaders who deliver many their services.
“It’s just the hype on the streets, man” – Ruraltown A&E 2006
Two of the youths involved were interviewed. Born and living in this country, they were, never the less, very hard to understand. One of them was asked about the new Government plan for 5 year sentences for knife crime:
“My Boys don’t care about no sentence. When they are doing what they are doing (carrying knives) they don’t care about no consequences”
He then went on to say that his most recent conviction was for street robbery. He had been found guilty and sentenced to 6 months; he had served 3 months and his comment was:
“Three months! That is good for robbery, man”
He then explained that he had 32 previous convictions and had been to prison only twice.
The reporter then asked if he had been on drugs or alcohol at the time:
“no, maybe some”
He then asked:
“Most people can’t conceive that anyone would want to hurt another human being with a weapon; what do you think about that?”
They replied:
“It’s just the hype on the streets, man. If you get caught with a blade and you go down for five years, that is just unlucky innit”
If this individual has 32 previous convictions, clearly he has been arrested and/or dealt with by police officers 32 times successfully i.e. a conviction was obtained.
Someone in this is not doing their job.
In light of this, yet again, Inspector Gadget asks anyone who cares to comment:
“How exactly is this kind of repeat offending by violent, disturbed and feral youths (who have been dealt with time and time again by us) still the responsibility of the police?”
“What exactly are we NOT doing as police officers in this case?”
“What accountability is there for the Courts?”
We need some high profile ACPO officers to start telling the public about this. Apart form the horrendous public safety issues, we are getting sick of arresting the same people again and again with no tangible result and then being blamed for their behaviour.
Gadget Note: At least one of the officers from my team at the incident shown in the photo above, is a Gadget reader. He and I have an informal agreement which preserves my anonymity. Sometimes you have to take risks to show the public what it really looks like “out there” and besides, if your own team “give you up” you may as well quit in any case. Best Wishes to you if you are reading.
Notice how the interviewee didn’t address the question about hurting other people with a knife?
A future as a politician is assured – dishonest, lacking in communication skills and will fob off important issues with bland comments.
Thanks Gadget – after the Coppers blog post on professional standards think we can all see how the the easy targets (police officers) get picked on, instead of addressing the inadequacies of other areas of the judicial system (judeges, courts, prison service and ultimately politicians)
Responsibility taken by ACPO? Surely you’ve been in the job long enough boss to know that’s never going to happen, not as long as Chiefs posts are at the discretion of the government
The arm of the individual cuffed to the trolley looks pretty lifeless. The fact that the individual is cuffed to the trolley makes this lifeless apprearance somehow satisfying. I find this satisfaction a little unsettling.
Is my judging by appearances and being pleased with the apparent demise of the individual wrong?
The person is not lifeless Ed; just exhausted after “kicking off” for so long and taking a break before starting again.
You certainly would not be pleased if that person died in your custody – far too much paperwork. Besides, they are still a human being blah blah
We’re just knocking our collective heads against an ever-increasing number of walls aren’t we?
The answer, as far as I can see, is lots more prisons full of lots more prisoners. Mandatory sentences are tough to enforce, though. I still think that each case has to be judged on its merits but there’s clearly no hope for the scum who was interviewed. He may well be bs’ing but it seems that a 5-year sytretch holds no fear for him. Maybe if 5 years actually meant 5 years in a “proper” prison with any small favours truly earned, he and his like might think twice.
I don’t think that any of us want to see a decent kid caught carrying a penknife locked up, though.
Let’s stop their benefits and kick them out of their free homes that they’ve done nothing to deserve and lock them up every time. It might help.
Ian Dale asks … Anyone got any other feedback on the British Crime Survey, which purports to show that recorded crime has fallen by 30% since Labour came to power in 1997? …
at his blog “iaindale dot blogspot dot com”
Comment with a html link does not display.
I am in agrrement that 32 previous offences with only 2 spells in prison suggest leniency. In fact, Bystander’s recent post suggests that Courts sometimes permit too many chances for offenders. However, I emphasise the word SOMETIMES because since both our adult and juvenile prisons are full to bursting, some courts, somewhere, are sending people down. I find it ironic that on the one hand we have the Police insisting that courts are soft and don’t incarcerate enough people and then we have the Government and others claiming that Courts are sending too many people to jail. Someone’s got to be wrong but meanwhile the courts are torn between the two.
The liberal left constantly tell us that prison doesn’t work or rehabiltate offenders. With only 2 custodial sentences and 30 plus convictions it is apparent that not sending this young man to prison did not work either.
I am of the opinion that being in prison works for P.P.O’s in as much as they are unable to reoffend while incarcerated. And to this end there is an agument that not only should they receive custodial sentences, but they should be of signicant length thus preventing reoffending for longer periods.
There are many people that veer from the straight and narrow that are capable of rehabilitation and every effort should be provided to assist them in acheiving this. However; there are signicant numbers of offenders who are beyond redemption and these are usually the ones that see leniance as a weakness.
It would be a simple task to seperate these two types of offenders, helping those that can be helped and banging up those that can’t. Simplistic? Probably but it’s the simple things that usually work the best!
It is unbelievable that the courts give so many chances. I got to spend a day in youth court in February, and could not beleive what i saw.
Most did not even bother to turn up and the lead magistrate simply asked the clerk to send out another court date to the scrotes. Out of the 8 who did show up, i knew 2 from my job as a prison officer. Only 1 of the eight was sent down, and that was for a 4month dto (2 months jail, and 2 months licence). He had breached approx 12 orders. He even had the nerve to show up at court over an hour late, with a ‘footlocker’ bag, as he had obviously been out shopping prior to going to court. He actualy beleived he was going home from court. Oh how he cried when he got handcuffed to the officers in the court.
One of the others, who had been brought from my jail as he had been arrested and remanded for posession with intent t supply while on tag. He had his licence conditions reinstated and was sent on his way.
What kind of message does this send out to the criminal classes?
How the government has the nerve to say that it is the fault of the police is beyond me. But then again, they are all a bunch of public school boys all looking out for each other.
Guv,
To change the subject slightly to T Shirts. I ordered 2 on the 8th and a polo shirt on the 9th and i have not received anything as yet. Are they just caught up in our wondeful postal system?
Hearsay,
There is no doubt that we send of lot of people to prison in the UK!
The problem is not that we send too many people to prison, the problem is that we don’t send them soon enough or for long enough (as is demonstrated in Gadget’s article).
Most sentences are more of an inconvenience than a punishment!
The Government says that we send more people to prison than any of our european neighbours but what that fail to say is that the number of British offenders sent to prison per number of offences committed is actually the lowest in europe! Thus proving my assumption.
hearsay:
There are too many people in prison.
They are all serving laughable short sentences.
This does not deter them, it encourages them.
The answer is to have them actually SERVE long sentences as opposed to just be GIVEN long sentences.
The numbers prepared to risk ACTUALLY serving a long sentence would be much smaller, and eventually (really quite quickly) the prison population would decrease.
I sat on a bench last year which sentenced a 15 year old persistent offender to a 12 month DTO. He was prolific in his crimes but they were all low level thefts with a few S5 public order offences. He’d been given numerous community orders but it didn’t stop his offending. He was in floods of tears, clinging to his Grandad (who appeared to be a decent bloke at the end of his tether), telling him he loved him and begging us for another chance. I’ve seen many crocodile tears before but this was blind panic and pretty disturbing. Anyway, the consensus view was that he’d been given plenty of chances and the only person to blame was himself. I saw him in Court again last week. He’s put on at least 2 stone, which appears to be pure muscle. His attitude was condescending to say the least and his crime, to which he pleaded not guilty (he always used to plead guilty) was a far more serious violent offence which was on the cusp of being sent to the Crown Court.
My conclusion was that, whilst we were entirely correct in sending this young man to prison, in effect we had created a monster who was a greater threat to society and for whom the last bastion of punishment now held no fear.
“It would be a simple task to seperate these two types of offenders, helping those that can be helped and banging up those that can’t. Simplistic? Probably but it’s the simple things that usually work the best!”
Who would it be a simple task for?
Justice is blind, remember – and the CPS & the courts aren’t even that aware of what they’re doing.
As far as I can see, the CPS are aiming to get as many ‘easy’ prosecutions as cheaply as possible – it’s in their interest to lower the charges far below what the evidence might support, as they’re not being judged on the quality of their work.
What you measure is what you get…
I just turned the radio off.
How many more times do I have to listen to these DNA wasters; these ‘reformed’ gang members and the associated socio-psycho-babble-bollocks that accompanies these news items.
So much money wasted on commoonitee projects which should be used to build more secure prison places.
Angry Dave,
“What kind of message does this send out to the criminal classes?”
The same message that being able to take as many drugs as you like whilst locked up and guarded by prisons officers does.
“I don’t think that any of us want to see a decent kid caught carrying a penknife locked up, though.”
Indeed, nor the many business men and women who have a penknife on their keyring, the engineers (like me) who carry a gerber or leatherman for their job and general usefulness or again like me, well meaning first aiders who carry a small knife with a rounded tip as it can be used to cut seatbelts, remove clothing and cut up items to fashion into bandages.
I find the whole lock knife vs fixed blade vs non locking folding knife being treated differently totally crazy. A locking knife or fixed blade are clearly safer for the user and yet they are the ones treated as illegal.
I’d like to see three things done
1 – Get rid of the differentiation between types of knives (other than assisted opening which really only has a purpose in combat or for the disabled) and instead have a legal limit on blade length unless you have a specific reason to be carrying longer (e.g. hunting, boating, diving etc) which probably also means you aren’t in the middle of a city
2 – Differentiate between types of knives. Pointy knives with a narrow blade designed for stabbing have very little place except in the kitchen, the battlefield and for hunters. If you are caught with a pointy knife, you better have a good reason. Knives like Rescue hooks (tightly curved U shaped blade for cutting clothing, belts, ropes) should be allowed as the worst you could do with them is slice your finger and it would be fairly intentional. Probably still very illegal as technically they are a fixed blade, this is now what I carry as I think a sensible police officer would realise its not there to hurt people
3 – Perhaps most importantly, make carrying a knife a right that has to be earned with an accompanying responsibility. I.e. only allow those to carry a knife who have no criminal convictions relating to violence / gangs etc. Warn them when convicted of their first offence and make the penalty tough and default where no intent is needed and the carrying alone becomes illegal. That would make it illegal for the majority of the scum who are responsible for knife crime to carry a knife and would keep the rest of us from worry of prosecution.
For those who are interested, on the britishblades forums, I found an ‘ask a cop’ section which has a Scottish policeman giving his views on knives. Cant link from work but it’s a very interesting read
Hearsay,
“the last bastion of punishment”. In a young offenders institution! Sorry, I don’t think so. TV’s, playstations and all the other mod cons is what I saw the last time I visited one.
Your PYO felt no fear because society failed to make him feel fear. That is the fundamental problem with these PYO’s. They don’t fear the consequences of their actions.
hearsay
Please don’t feel bad – he would have put on the muscle and adopted the attitude on the outside anyway.
For the time he was inside, many victims have been saved from a beating or worse.
You did your duty.
Hearsay:
What you will never know is whether your 15 year old monster would have become that anyway, or whether it was his incarceration which did this to him. We need to be careful to ensure that there is a real link between cause and effect in this particular case.
And this is why as a JP I have refused to sit on the juvenile/youth bench. And continue to do so. The mix of crocodile tears and pointless sentences, followed by harsh sounding but ineffective sentences, administered int he first instance by an inept and under-resources probation service, is more than I need to bear, given that as a lay mag I do this in my own time and of my own volition.
Parkway,
Of course it wouldn’t be ’simple’ in the current regime…
Nothing is simple within our current criminal justice system.
It would require root and branch change, a whole new philosophy.
But heres an an idea; a P.P.Y.O. with 20 plus convictions, no custodials, multiple breeches of court orders, dozens of last chances, an army of support workers, no remorse or acceptance of guilt… what group would he fall into?
Anyone seen the film ‘Fortress’? It concerns a futuristic prison, underground in a great big hole in the desert where against the backdrop of all manner of gruesome punishments, the key job of the prisoners is to keep digging down and making the prison bigger.
What a great idea!
Ps. I’m suprised no-one has mentioned the US style ‘3 strikes’ idea.
Gadget, as an aside but still on the subject of knives, can I draw your attention to this nasty bit of kit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa_NC-_fvKs.
As an OST trainer we recently recieved details on this item from the MET. It obviously takes time for tis to get around. Just for everyones safety really. It is a survival tool that will drop a great white shark or grizzly bear.One for everyone to be on the lookout for. When you stab the blade into your target ot shoots a ball of frozen compressed gas into your bloodstream, which then expands to the size of a basketball.
The public blame the police, the police blame the courts and CPS actually neither party is entirely without criticism, including the public. Mainly, however, the fault lies with government’s continual medalling and quick fixes. The have created a target driven culture where results are king regardless of effects to the populace or morale of those enforcing the law. The courts are sending people (who deserve it but I will not shirk from giving someone a second chance) to prison. However, they are released half way through their sentence or released as soon as they reach the prison gates. The government is increasingly seeking to emasculate the courts and there are less and less options which we can use in court. Their favoured option is fines but in this they fail to understand that the majority of offenders are on benefits and if they are already having £5 a week (the maximum) taken from it for previous fines – what are we expected to do? Even if the pendulum swings in the near future it will take years for society to right itself.
I had an interesting conversation with a 15 yr old who’s mother had asked me to speak to him about his behaviour. This intelligent young man was at a fork in the road. Whether to choose the path of criminality most of his friends had chosen or the path of abandoning his ‘friends’, ignoring the peer pressure and making a decent life for himself.
He said that his group of friends regularly committed street crime, particularly robbery. Numbers of them had been arrested and convicted and none of them had yet served a term of detention. In his words:
“You’re a joke (the police and courts). You can’t touch them (my friends) because they know that if they are caught they won’t go to prison so they just carry on robbing”
Surely we should be making an example of these offenders the first time they are convicted? A short hard period of detention (with no TV or playstations) may make them think again about the consequences of their behaviour.
It’s a big game of pass the parcel IG, unfortunately the police seem to end up holding it when the music stops even (despite the fact they’re not).
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc? Tsk tsk.
When an agent of the State weaves their way through the drunks and junkies of Diversity Towers Estate, knocks on Waynetta’s door at the crack of teatime, and pulls out a list of questions without offering any money in return, how does Waynetta respond? Invites them in for Pringles and cider, or threatens to fetch one or more of her babydaddies to sort them out?
In fact, you’d have to be a brave clipboard wielder to even go into the highest crime areas in the first place. Given that you’ll get paid the same for just ticking the “no answer” box and nipping off to the pub instead, is it possible that the results are not as representative as they might be?
Hi Inspector Gadget,
I’m a new reader to your site; found you yesterday and I have been ploughing my way through all your previous posts and love your style.
Today’s post has drawn your usual level of comments and I felt I had to join them. I, too, am horrified at the level of spoken English among these young people who have been born and brought up in this country, and yet seem to be completely unable to speak English in a manner that the majority understand. This is in part due to the ghetto-like enclaves that so many minorities seem to find their way into, and consequently their failure to appreciate and adopt what we would consider to be acceptable manners and behaviour.
There can be no doubt that the police will continue to be held to blame for the state of things, mainly by politicians and the media, and yet it is these people who are far more responsible for the breakdown of law and order in this country. Judges and magistrates must also shoulder their responsibilities in this area, and ensure that penalties truly fit the crime. While I would never advocate ‘an eye for an eye’ I do believe that it is necessary to punish offenders, no matter how that may impinge on their human rights, because it is unfair for victims to be the biggest losers as a result of any particular crime.
Police officers, like members of this country’s armed forces, know that there are going to be times when they are going to have to face danger in the pursuit of their duties, but it is wrong to expect them to have to face these dangers knowing that if anything happens to them the offender will be dealt with in a manner that can only appear farcical to many observers around the world. Perhaps we should introduce a ‘three strikes and you are out’ system of sentencing in this country, and then when they are given a prison sentence, ensure that they serve every day of it.
Rogerborg,
Nescio quid dicas.
“The public blame the police; the police blame the courts and CPS”
Eh? No, actually the public entirely blame the courts, they just THINK we have a say in sentencing and blame us for seeing the same problem recur with virtually the same core of offenders.
Here’s a few figures I’d like to see published in your local/national newspaper, a table showing the name of the crook , the offence(s) , and the sentence given .Then list the actual time served .
See those figures build up week after week , month after month , let people know that their repeat offence could have been avoided had the criminal COMPLETED the sentence given .
Then, let’s see who gets blamed.
The great success of the crime figures is nothing whatsoever to do with the punitive deterrent of the criminal justice system, political shenanigans, or any other window dressing.
LISTEN to what the laughable yuff leader, by Christ, tells you. Says everything , everything you need to know , do not speak to social workers , probation services, politicians they do not address this issue , they “deal ” with the symptom. It’s not their fault either.
The prison population is rising at a time of decreasing figures, why? partly because of better security in homes and cars, forensic advances , DNA etc., but also because of the success of front line police officers, shifting large volumes of repeat offenders, so eventually they have to go , but for piddle poor sentences.
Hearsay and Rogerborg:
“Pairus de snoberi tosspotteri”
Latin Master @ 31
It’s good to see that the underclass also read this blog and that you were able to press the keyboard while surfing Sky and scratching your b*lls.
My foot still looks good in that picture!
Hope you are well….I am still waiting for the two t shirts for me and the missus!!!
IG – How many extra prison places to give a nice long sentence for say 40% of the persistent and prolific offenders of say 3 years each? Then we just have to persuade the government to budget for the extra places.
simply build more prisons simply build more prisons simply build more prisons. I really do not care if people re-offend. lock them up again.
At least they can not harm society when locked up.
imagine this scenario….. fight on a saturday night, fuelled by cheap lager and no fear of consequences / drink drive offence (pick your low level crime)…. arrest…. remand… convicted on the monday morning and sentenced to a week inside. explain that to your employer/ partner…. when i say inside, i mean locked up for 23hrs… food through a hatch no tv or radio or telephones or drugs etc…
second offence…. then its ten days….. third offence 14 days…..
i wonder who would get bored first?
I don’t blame the police for this situation or the courts, I do blame a government who introduced the human rights act and meddle in every aspect of a person’s life. Why should the law abiding working person pay for these scum to be locked up in cosy cells with all the amenities that they can’t afford for themselves, if you are sending people to prison it should be hell on earth for them.
My fear here is that we are getting close to the point where people take their own action against these (he/she was such a good kid) people, start treating them as they treat others, you wouldn’t let a rabid dog run free, you would put it down, start treating the career criminal and feral yob the same. I don’t mind paying for a bullet or length of rope and it protects the rest of us permanently from them.
A thought for the liberal elite to choke on, if the police are racist because they stop far more black, Muslim, just pick your poison and insert here, Look at the people stabbed to death in out inner cities who are for the most part black and it would appear immersed in the gang culture, by other mostly black people involved in the gang culture (I know that is not always the case) and tell me who the police are supposed to stop and search, the 90 year old white man getting his paper so that you satisfy them as he is not young or black.
I got this from the prison reform trust website. It’s not a view I support 100%, but I’ve just posted to provide a little balance. What do you think?
“The prison population has been rising steeply since the early 1990s. It is now 83,330, in 1993 it was 45,000. Some of the steepest rises have been for women and children.
The reason for the growth is not more crime, which has been stable or fallen, or from more convictions in court, which have stayed stable, but the extension of prison for petty offenders and ever lengthening sentences.
The result is crowded prisons. Despite vast expenditure on new places, the cost is put at almost £100,000 a place, our prisons have been overcrowded for every year for more than a decade. This is not fair on the staff who are called upon to act merely as turnkeys, processing people from overcrowded jail to overcrowded jail. Nor is it fair on prisoners. Many are sitting out their sentences in a shared cell, eating, sleeping and using the toilet in the same small space as another person up to 23 hours a day. Nor does it aid public protection to have longer sentences in which less is done. The reoffending rate after prison has risen from 51% in 1992 to 67%. Crowded prisons do not work.
Many want more prisons. But if that was the answer, we wouldn’t be asking the question now. For many years we have built and built, and prisons have filled up yet more quickly. It is like trying to deal with a runaway train by building more track. Instead we need to ask tough questions about the level of mental health care, drug and alcohol programmes available in the community. We need community punishments that work and command public confidence. Then prisons and prison staff can do their job, holding securely and rehabilitating serious and violent offenders. “
If this individual has 32 previous convictions, clearly he has been arrested and/or dealt with by police officers 32 times successfully i.e. a conviction was obtained
As you say IG this only includes successful convictions. It does not include those where the Criminal Protection Society, sorry CPS, decided that it would not be in the public interest in to charge as it would conflict with CPSs targets of successful convictions at court.
Nor does his conviction rate fully reflect the people who were too scared to come forward as a victim or witness.
Are the public aware that Government targets set for the police and CPS are, on occasions, in conflict with each other?.
Altercation
No, you have not provided a balance.
The criminals you quote ,tough if they are women (good god ,we can’t lock up mama can we? ) and children (stop thinking Dick and Dora -start thinking track suited yob , smoking a reefer and slurping Stella Artois) are there because guess what ? They committed a very serious offence for which only a custodial sentence is appropriate, or. They are career criminals who have had all the cautions, final warnings and community sentences available.
There is ALWAYS a continuum of bad behaviour, prior to prison, do not fool yourself that if you nick a Mars bar its pokey, or that if you slap someone you go to prison.
You don’t!
Take it from the experts, NOT vested interests like the Prison Reform trust, a biased load old nonsense from people who like to explain away criminality by blaming a building, blame the government for not building enough, not the protectors and catchers of criminals.
Don’t be daft they are there because they deserve to be there. Not because they are all the victims of miscarriages of justice or hang- em high judges.
“Nor is it fair on prisoners. Many are sitting out their sentences in a shared cell, eating, sleeping and using the toilet in the same small space as another person up to 23 hours a day”
Eh? Yeah, it is. Whilst they are there, they not burgling, robbing and knifing your relatives.
“The re offending rate after prison has risen from 51% in 1992 to 67%”
No, they were always going to be career criminals; it’s just that we catch them more and lock them up, more often. Hence the fact that MORE re offending happens, not that prison does it to them. They do more re offending because the original sentence did not learn em enough , how about that as a theory?
“For many years we have built and built, and prisons”
No, all politicians have put off the inevitable cost of building prisons, they played a political /economical game of trade off .They hoped to get away with it , the probation game has failed , community service does not work .
“Instead we need to ask tough questions about the level of mental health care, drug and alcohol programmes available in the community “
No, the Police don’t; politicians need to address care in the community, and the licensing laws, if that’s what you mean.
Police need to do simple stuff.
Lock criminals up and send them to court for appropriate sentences.
It really is that simple.
“Rehabilitating serious and violent offenders. “
And the recorded, verifiable proof, of this liberal ideal is available to read ,where?
Altercation 37 wrote …I got this from the prison reform trust website. It’s not a view I support 100%, but I’ve just posted to provide a little balance. What do you think? …
See “A Land Fit For Criminals” ISBN 1846242053 by David Fraser. Former prison doctor Theodore Dalrymple reviews it. http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_3_oh_to_be.html
From the Amazon reviews:
A wonderful antidote to the poisonous myths so assiduously promoted by the anti-prison lobby. … A devastating critique (and) startling insider’s account of the deception being played upon the public. … All in all, the book is an excellent, if at times hopelessly depressing read, particularly his vivid descriptions of how vicious crimes have often escaped with mind bogglingly light sentences. … the author lists a number of detailed steps we can take, and leaves us on the optimistic note that the power to change the situation we are in lies within us.
Altercation 37 wrote …I got this … What do you think? …
I think you may find the downloadable Civitas booklet by Charles Murray http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/cs10.pdf “Underclass + 10” illuminating.
… From the mid-nineteenth century through
the first three-quarters of this century …
Britain enjoyed extraordinarily low crime and extraordinary freedom. It was a unique, magnificent achievement, proving to the world that liberty and safety are compatible; proving, indeed, that a genuinely civil society is possible. No longer. Britain is just another high-crime industrialised country. … On every dimension of economic and political division, Britain and used to be a much more riven society than it is now. It was united in one crucial respect: a universally shared consensus of what constituted moral standards and civilised behaviour. And Britain used to have hardly any
crime at all.
Thanks Bert , I had made a mental note to reference both the above whilst typing ,but forgot , they say all that needs to be said on this subject.
Charles Murray was lambasted by the Liberal elite as a no nothing Yank , who did not understand British society .
I heard Fraser on a radiogramme defending his book to the leader of the UK probation officers (insert man with beard ), who made the astonising claim that community service orders work ,he then went on to rubbished the books central principle, claiming that we are making sure Wayne paints the fences this time.
Right , that’s enough from me on this subject, it’s Friday and I have to gorge my self on pizza and strong continental larger.
Can I say, the powers that be could learn a lot from this chap:
http://www.archive.org/details/sheriffjoe
Of course, they won’t, because, no doubt, of “human rights” and other nonsense.
We need real investment in prisons, both building more and training those we put in them. A qualification should be part of any parole. Also all inmates should be held accountable about rule breaking. Drugs in? well everyone gets punished. Lets pay the screws more but stop the contraband.
Also lets think about our nation as a whole, alot of our trouble today comes from lack of proper parenting, how many times do you see some poor kid at a s**thole address and over the years see them follow the path already paved. Lets hold parents accountable, stop the benefits. I think alot will start to take an interest when the stella fags and sky start to run dry
When I was a shop manager we had a bloke who tried to nick clothes almost every night.We called him the 5 o’clock man because he appeared at this hour.
As a shoplifter he was hopeless because he was stoned.
While I’m sure in his hazy state he thought he was a lightning criminal, committing super slight of hand to put a pair of jeans up his jumper, he was in fact glacially slow.
it would take him an age to stuff some article into his pocket in full view of the whole staff.
I posted my biggest lad at the door at 5pm and this druggie was easily deterred. But he came most nights and he was annoying, swearing, pushing and carrying on.
One day my man hit him. Just hard enough to knock his skull cap off and his cigarette tip up one nostril.
Never saw that scumbag again.
make of that what you will.
At least four years for manslaughter: http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/news/localnews/display.var.2400934.0.man_jailed_for_killing_dadtobe.php
Does the sentence fit the crime?
What a bizarre report from the Croydon Guardian.
You can see why two PC’s were attacked there by a mob the other day asking a girl to pick up her rubbish. The place seems to be inhabited by feral scum.
Croydon is a place to avoided these days, it’s a long way from when it was a desirable place to go shopping.
The report will take an ordianry person who inhabits the ‘normal’ world where most people have christian/western values and morals into a bizarre parallel universe.
Just look at the players? Their names, their locations………..lost for words at the mindless stupidity of it all.
“…..Mikey’s girlfriend Marcie Netting, from Basildon, Essex, gave birth to his son Romarni Mikey Brown 16 days after he died…..” ROMARNI?????
I bet the local garages ran out of flowers for the instant shrine which displayed all the tributes written in textspeak!
Ugh!
The Judge probably reckoned the DNA waster found guilty will be dead himself in a few years, so why keep him safe in prison to delay the inevitable.
I apologise in advance if anyone feels this is in bad taste, but ………………………………..I’m so sick and tired of reading about these stupid wastrels.
Every one enjoys short term pleasures. so why worry about long term pain.
Prison be no longer a place to punish, it be a vacation away from home with all the modern pleasures ,
Now if the nick be like the army nick at Tel el Kabir where one spends 12 hours, moving a sand hill around the court yard or spend time polishing wooden floors soak in engine sump oil, and trimming the governors lawn with a blunt pair of nail scissors instead of lying on ones palli ass watching Arse n al running around with Moscow dyn a moes then I could understand why they would not want to attend the facilities for a repeat vacation with all expenses paid along with servants..
[...] Another Form Of Relief Interesting Radio 4 Interview at the “Foundation 4 Life” youth project this morning. They deliver [...] [...]
I know my politics may be to the right of ghengis khan and a MOP, but I would advocated a public flogging. It is very hard to be macho with your kecks down aroound ankles, tears rolling down your cheeks and begiing not recieve the next lash……
Sheriff Joe is not a pleasant man. And his “techniques” for controlling and punishing people are the last thing we need.
Do a quick Google search on him and it won’t take long to find all his negative press. There was a rather damning documentary on him recently which you may be able to find on Youtube.
At a first glance he does appear to be the solution to the complete lack of back-bone in the English justice system. Sadly, he takes it way too far.
“third offence 14 days…..
i wonder who would get bored first?”
Just out of interest, what would it cost the country to accommodate the rise in prison-building and prison population that you talk about?
Does anyone know? Say we have a current prison populationo of a million. Should look it up, can’t be bothered. Say we introduced a sentencing policy that tripled that over the next 15 years. There must be a think-tank projection somewhere that explains what this would all cost, no?
It’s the Liberal Elite, innit?
We know how to cut violent crime, but it takes leadership from the top, like NY Mayor Giuliani implementing a “broken windows” / community policing policy in the teeth of opposition from the Liberal Elite.
We know that long-term unemployment destroys lives.
We know that time-limited welfare works.
We know that children living with mum and boyfriend are 35 times more at risk of abuse than children living with married mum and dad.
But the Liberal Elite (the people writing the books, asking the questions on TV, setting the agenda for the courts, the police, the social services) doesn’t care.
Not yet.
“If this individual has 32 previous convictions, clearly he has been arrested and/or dealt with by police officers 32 times successfully i.e. a conviction was obtained.”
Very VERY good point. Well made.