Sir Ronnie Flanagan’s year-long review on policing will say up to six million police hours a week are wasted on bureaucracy.
‘A leaked version seen by the BBC also says police forces target less serious crimes to boost performance figures’.
Well done Sir Ronnie; we have only been saying this on every police Blog for two years!
I can exclusively reveal that “Section Five Is So Last Summer” was looked at by Staff Officers working on Flanagan’s team, after they contacted me via this site.
I have read the interim report, and quite frankly, I was disappointed.
As usual with Flanagan, most of the work seems to have been done by other people and the least line of resistance has been taken. They trot out the usual complaints about what a complete load of wasteful nonsense policing in the UK has become.
We already know that. This was a real opportunity to look at the whole rotten system from root to branch. What we have got is a suggestion to get rid of a few forms and employ some more civilian staff. As the 24/7 Policing Report said; civilian staff create work for police officers and build cash-hungry empires.
There really is no point whatever in looking at police bureaucracy until someone gets a grip of the complete ineffectiveness of the Court sentencing situation. And for God’s sake; lets STOP looking at sentences handed out, and start looking at what the criminals actually serve when this debate is had in public.
It is the latter which provides a deterrent out on the Estates of Ruraltown, not the former.
Snap
So it’s Surreal Realbald Flannellagain?
Some of this was discussed on BBC Radio 4 this morning: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listenagain/ram/today4_police_20080207.ram
The president of the Chief Superintendents Association Ian Johnston and a PC Roger Smith were given a very easy ride by the interviewer; surprising given that they were cheerleaders for the Macpherson show trial which spawned some of this bureaucracy. Johnston speaks up for the Police – does this mean that there are Police Officers above the rank of inspector who have yet to undergo re-education?
Bert, SMT are so out of touch in some places, they are in all honesty puppets to the home office.
Did Sir Ronnie have to go softly softly because of the Omagh Inquiry debacle? He probably needs some high level friends for protection at the moment.
thethinblueline wrote … SMT are so out of touch in some places, they are in all honesty puppets to the home office. … This is the general drift I pick up from IG and elsewhere. Have you actually had a chance to listen to the interview linked to above? I was surprised to hear a senior officer addressing issues raised on this blog and not being either sidetracked by the interviewwer nor nailing his colours to the Multiculti mast.
How is Surrealbald Flannellagain viewed by Response Officers or those in NI?
I started reading about this yesterday in the Mail (only paper I could find) and actually sank back in my chair my chair after reading more than the “wastes equivalent of 3000 officers” The report was half arsed, he didn’t try to determin exactly how many of the 142k officers in the UK are actually frontline and therefore responsible for completeing the majority of the paperwork. How do we go about requesting a Royal Commision on Policing which is completely independant and they actively are required to speak to ‘coal face’ staff and not just puppets?
90 % of Police duty can be done by a 9-5 bod , says Ronnie ,that’s probably because in his rush through the ranks Ronnie only saw 10 % at any one time , the pixies did the rest
De Ja Vu
Yet another set of obvious conclusions that did not justify the time spent coming to those conclusions. The chosen methods of addressing these issues will be same as it has been for the last decade.
A. Hire a team of civvies, set up a department, fund them well, stress their importance to the entire organisation is tackling these issues and finally make everyone jump through this new departments hoops.
B. Symbolically remove a pile of forms
What will happen is:
A. The new team will set about designing a massive sea change in organisational practice which will actually boil down to more forms, more processes, more bureaucracy and another chunk of front line money feeding the ever greedy rear echelon as they scramble to adjust to the new all mighty teams diktats.
B. New forms will be devised that will be “quicker” to fill in as the will be “smaller” they of course will still have the same information on them well just have to write smaller or it will be double sided.
Its all be done before, nothing new to see here, move along please.
Asking bureaucrats to fight bureaucracy is not the solution, they don’t understand the task, its against their nature.
Furthermore:
Is any one surprised the Ronnie is suggesting we adopt practices that would turn us into a paramilitary force?
Is any one surprised that the conclusion is more civilians, again, they do tend to go home on mass at 16:45 you know. The handful of barely trained kids looked after by a decreasing number of experience Officers still have to pick up the slack.
Is anyone surprised that a major conclusion is for a facelift for Police station’s? It is such a Nulabour concept, forget the underlying issues lets just tart up the few Police stations that are still open. Our force does this whenever its gets the chance, their already onto this con.
Ronnie i expected more, i really did, what a wasted opportunity. I mean why not say it how it is, your at the end of your career, nothing to loose, nothing to gain.
Bert
Superintendent Ian Johnston and PC Roger Smith were very disappointing on Radio 4 this morning.
Ian Johnson used HOCR examples that were wrong (I know because sadly I have just read and completed a report on the HOCR and amendments) and PC Smith talked just a little too much about things like “accountability to the public” etc for my liking, meaning I don’t think he is for real or been near a street for a while – street cops just don’t talk in those terms.
I’m VERY concerned that the pathetic sentencing which creates the problems of petty crime will again be over looked. The local criminal element do not care about bureaucracy they care about AVOIDING long jail time. That’s all.
10.51
“Ronnie i expected more, i really did, what a wasted opportunity. I mean why not say it how it is, your at the end of your career, nothing to loose, nothing to gain”
Wrong. He wants his place in the Upper House, Lord Belfast or something!
He also wants the (no doubt highly paid) job of producing the change he has suggested.
IG is correct, get the shits into jail, that is all that is required.
My view
http://stanstill.wordpress.com/2008/02/07/be-careful-what-you-wish-for/
Wwas the last time Ronnie (bless him) was on the frontline and actually policing. If my memory serves me it was before the era of ‘Nu Labour’, and these pillocks are the main problem. Even then he was sheilded in a cosy office. What is really needed is for actual frontline police officers to review the police. Oh, we did that, the PFEW have produced a number of very well researched reports backing up the ‘real problems’ but they told the truth so were put to one side.
In fact my last comments were backed up by Mr Popular of police bloggs (none other than Tony McNumpty) who blamed the Fed – because he had spoken with frontline police officers and they weren’t saying the same things – yes right. You only ever get to meet those who aint going to rock the boat you wally – are you daft!!
Ronnie is being paid by Nu Labour to come up with an independant review – yes right, a bit like Booth did. I will reserve my judgement until it is published but you can guarantee that the labour spin machine is gearing up for a bumper period of media nonsense. As for PDA’s and Head Cams, shove em!!
inspectorgadget wrote … Superintendent Ian Johnston and PC Roger Smith were very disappointing … street cops just don’t talk in those terms. … I defer to your first hand experience; however it demonstrates just how appallingly bad some of the others must be that I thought Superintendent Ian Johnston was OK in comparison.
inspectorgadget wrote … I’m VERY concerned that the pathetic sentencing … criminal element … care about AVOIDING long jail time. … I agree.
Never mind bringing back “stop and search”, how about “stop and birch”?
notellin wrote … Ronnie i expected more … your at the end of your career, nothing to loose, nothing to gain. … False. He would lose his membership of the Ruling Class. In my opinion it is the same reason that wealthy people only give large sums to the Establishment Party and not to the political minnows. Powerful people mingle with powerful people and are insulated from the effects of the decisions of their own peer group. At the least it would involve a loss of “street cred” for Surrealbald Flannellagain to give weight to the concerns of Response Officers against the received wisdom of the Ruling Class’ Multiculti Ideology. Surely you realise that the only problem with Multiculti Policing is that it has not been implemented correctly yet? I would hazard a guess that the net result of this report will be less effective Response Policing.
justacop wrote … because he had spoken with frontline police officers and they weren’t saying the same things … President Blair had many things said straight to his face on TV by members of the public who could not be terrorised by their superiors, unlike Police Officers or soldiers; I am not aware that it changed anything significantly.
“There really is no point whatever in looking at police bureaucracy until someone gets a grip of the complete ineffectiveness of the Court sentencing situation. ”
Not really. They are related but different. The solution with police bureaucracy is to remove it all and start again, and sack all the bureaucrats and/or put “Police Officers” who work as bureaucrats back working as real Police Officers. If they find that too difficult they can f— off.
Most of the bureaucracy is AFAICS completely unnecessary and exists as a mixture of central government monitoring/target requirements, CPS requirements, back covering, or job creation schemes by the bureaucracy.
Getting civs to do it is a stupid idea. You’ll still have to pay them, Police Officers will still have to do a lot of it. It simply needs a brutal cull.
As for the CPS, shut it down and return the decision making to Police Officers.
Court Sentencing is a sandwich problem. There is simply far too much crime, partly due to the almost total lack of Police Officers actually working on low level crime and zero effort by the “Service” in preventative crime. We need to shoot the Social Worker mentality ; criminals are criminals, child criminals are criminals, and no-one is excused because of their poor upbringing.
At the same time teachers need to be given real clout to handle junior yobs to stop them developing into criminals (this is happening at an alarmingly increasing rate)
Will it happen ; no it won’t !
I know CSO’s aren’t a popular option with most of the officers who read these. However, my force employs civilian investigation staff who deal with the low level volume crime once the suspect is in custody. They’ll take on the interviewing, consult CPS and then compile the files for court, therefore meaning the officers save a minimum of three hours per job. Totally agree with the amount of paperwork being unnecessary but perhaps this is one instance where civilian staff can be extremely useful?
Would a Turkey vote for an early Christmas, no. Would a bueracrat vote for a cull of bureaucracy?.
anon, no one is saying that all civilian staff are useless, just as soco’s and the majority of operators are civilians, they are extremely useful if used properly and allowed to remain in touch with the reality in which we work. CSO’s were dreamed up by people with no clue about policing and live in a world where someone in a yellow jacket saying to them “would you mind terribly just standing here as I can detain you for 30 minutes” is perfectly reasonable and they comply, unlike the reality that CSO’s actually work in where most people tell them to f&ck off as they know they have no powers of arrest and have to call a police officer to actually deal with something.
In my experience the only things CSO’s are handy for is on scene guard to release police officers to respond to calls, the rest of the time its like giving a neighbourhood watch wannabe a radio straight through to the police control room that they HAVE to answer. No concept of the mechanics behind the majority of what we do, even after being in the role for a couple of years most still have no clue, as fully admitted by EVERY SINGLE CSO I know who has gone on to join as a police officer. oh, and a final bitch… 45 minutes before the duty finishes when you work 12 hour shifts IS NOT the time to go around looking for shit for police officers to deal with because they have to as CSO’s can’t be made to stay on. Not amusing in the slightest, and all too regular an occurance.
As for civilian investigators to deal with custody and court files etc, good idea as long as probationers still deal with their own so they learn how to actually investigate crimes, and I know a few in a force near london actively employee ex police officers for that very role so it works well. In the Met most borough’s have Case Progression Units staffed by police officers who do the majority of handovers when they can and that also works extremely well as they are constantly interviewing, investigating and liasing with CPS and get very good at it.
The majority gripe about civilian staff isn’t to do with those actively engaged in ‘Police work’ its the people who sit in offices collating stats and building their own empires who become obsessed with it and think that their job is the core reason that the Police exist…not actual police work and hunting for criminals.
Police Officers ARE civilians……. with badges, pensions, sick pay, salary and holiday entitlement.
I think the salary and benefits are what they are trying to get rid of.
Remember, they HATE us because of the Miners strike. As for Flanagan, he has plenty of scores to settle with the English police after the enquiries into the RUC we did over the years.
Very disappointing all in all – lots of talk about strategies and accountability and costs and value for money blah de blah. Can’t say I’m surprised. Employing civilians is all very well – a very limited number work in my nick and mainly obtain statements for the File Unit, but this is just another half arsed attempt to make life easier for the Response Crews who are already being pulled in several directions at once.
Here’s some zany ideas for Ronnie if he’s struggling… Why not get all the Police Officers out of the zillions of little teams that have been set up to record “this and that” and liaise with “this organisation or that organisation”, put them in some body armour and give them a radio and a set of cuffs, baton and CS and assign them to a new team, called say…a patrol. There must be quite a few of them because there’s some 200 cars in the car park at my nick on a typical day. And then send them out “patrolling” around the towns and streets. Maybe if we had say 30 officers “patrolling” instead of 8 we might be able to deal with people quickly. Hey – wait a minute, maybe if we did that people might think the police were good at their job, and – shock horror – might actually see a Police Officer on their street.
Sarcasm aside, the solution to all these issues is far too radical to happen in the near future because as Paul says, it requires a much more brutal approach and a blank piece of paper on which to start again.
Red tape cut? Hahaha…Sorry but between that and the snowball fight i had in hell it’s been a strange week. IG a joke you police types may find the below joke amusing considering your current stats and targets orientated. It’s taken from a website so i don’t make any claim of ownership over it:
—————–
“Can you imagine working for a company that has a little more than 600
employees and has the following statistics?
29 have been accused of spouse abuse
7 have been arrested for fraud
19 have been accused of writing bad cheques
117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
3 have done time for assault
71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
4 have been arrested on drug-related charges
8 have been arrested for shoplifting
21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
84 have been arrested for drink driving in the last year
Which organization is this?
It’s the 635 members of the House of Commons, the same group that cranks out hundreds of new laws each year.”
————————————————————-
And yet apparently you’re the organisation that can’t be trusted to know when to stop & search/account etc eh?…
Like Captain Slow says there are an awful lot of officers on specialist teams, that have certain ‘remits’ which dont include providing a front line response. I was told that a certain borough in Sarf london was having a lot of outstanding unassigned calls, every shift.
On one shift the borough commander decided that something had to be done, and declared it a critical incident and got every officer out of CID, CSU, SNT and all the other depts and gave them a call to deal with. The result was they cleared the backlog by the end of the shift
Stalker and Stevens really got thier shoot to kill enquiries to stick on the RUC/MI5/MI6/ARMY , must have bothered Ronnie no end .
Stalker suspended for alleged criminal fraternising (exonerated) ,said Taylor accepted £1,000,000 plus from Grt Manchester Police who maliciously prosecuted him causing him to be bankrupt
Spontaneous combustion of Stevens paperwork, whilst in NI really helped.
correct re the salary/ benefit they just don’t think we are worth it .
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=512876&in_page_id=1770&ct=5
Never mind about all that! Here’s the answer – the archdruid of canterbury hath spokeneth bollockth!
We’ve had an ex DI turn up as a civilian statement taker. His MG11s are appalling and everyone I’ve seen has had to be redone by the Officer.
Scrap the ‘neighbourhood Policing’ rubbish. Get the workshy layabouts back on 24hr response, hopefully getting shifts above five (if we’re lucky). Make all the DVU/CPU/PPO ’specialists’ actually deal with the domestics and the child assaults. I’msick of ‘not my remit’. I rang child protection recently about a 12 year old that had had sex with a lodger. Response “that’s not a proper rape because she seems to have consented, after all there’s rape……and there’s proper rape”. He expected a response officer with 2 years service to deal along with all her other commitments.
Shortage of ‘detectives’….my arse!
I’m truly demoralised and sickened at what this Government get up to. (By the way. Armed forces have got a (deserved) 2.6% payrise…which is apparently in line with inflation. Can you see a flaw n that statement when compared to the rhetoric around our pay rise)
What he is talking about is a glorified Force wide charging unit. This is not new and will be coming in via the back door. It happens on certain major events, football duty and large pre-planned stuff.
The Police officers attend the call or is called to a scene where an arrest needs to be made or deal with the arrest (s) if necessary. After transport to custody and justifying the arrest to custody officer a statement of evidence and/or note book is completed whilst other Police staff deal with getting witness details, losers/aggrieved person statements and any other statements needed at the time, preserving scenes, obtaining evidence left at scene, requests for CSI and property disposal/seizure etc etc.
The custody based team of Police staff then take over to process the detainee, fingerprint, photograph, take DNA, and complete relevant admin/records.
The trained interview team liase with handover information completed by Police staff, including witness/loser statements and if necessary can speak to witnesses depending on time constraints. After this interview team begin interview(s) of suspect and follow up with liaison with Police staff file assembly officers.
The Police Staff will not be recruited from retiring or retired officers who have a wealth of experience and the relevant abilities to do the parts of the job needed within the full mechanism of what is needed. They will be recruited from people who will have to be trained to do the component parts and will tick relevant boxes selected by people who do not understand the component parts of the processes involved. This will open and transparent and will get people who are not really suited for the role into a post they do not understand and will take an age to learn how to do poorly and then after some time adequately.
Just think of how CID has been decimated in recent times and the loss of people with excellent interview techniques, excellent prosecution file assembly skills, excellent skills when speaking to witnesses and obtaining detailed and accurate statements that reflect what has been seen. This is a loss and a waste of a great resource that has the necessary training already and the experience level to take this in their stride.
The right system would allow the good body takers more time on the streets where they are best suited and needed without the countless hours bogged down under the administrative legal processes. They would be required to complete note book and/or statement and then back out onto the streets again, unless there is a pressing continuity problem eg. serious offence,
The remainder of the machine does the job for which itis intended:
Prisoner handling and processing.
Offence investigation, evidence handling & property retention.
Witness/loser statement taking.
Prisoner interviewing.
Charging decision & relevant matters, bail, ID procedures etc etc.
Quite often one person does all this and he/she can say goodbye to a whole shift most of the time, even with enquiries left to following shift and other statements to take.
Arresting officer then is back out on the streets after note book completion.
Sadly we have moved away from the most important asset we have being the operational constable on the street. Every other department were there to support these officers. Most have now been removed and replaced with uniform response because beat officers on foot are deemed a waste of resources. After all, why leave an officer on foot, in the community, the same community, for each hour of their shift, walking around when the same officer can be put in a car, cover umpteen more square miles of area and answer more calls because of this mobility ? Simple answer and it must be better, so say the number crunchers and statititians who see a failing brand.
The real problem is that it removes Police Officers from the community and also takes away the time they would interact with the community on a one to one basis during their shift. This is all about time and the perception of time from people who cannot find ways to measure what a community beat officer does during their shift. It cannot be measured accurately so it must be bad because there is no way of measuring anything that is perceived to be good. The conversations with members of the public, the intelligence gained, the crimes investigated in an area, the bond that is made over time with some areas of the community cannot be measured in real and beneficial ways by someone who doesn’t understand the basic principles of Policing in the community. Uniformed Police Officers should be at the hub of what we do. Everything else is there to support this.
Ask yourself this question. Why there has been such a decline in career beat officers ?
Those who have spent their entire careers or almost all of their careers as beat officers, on the same beat, in the same commuity. The ones where a CID officer or an officer investigating a spate of crimes would visit this officer as a first port of call because they were almost certain to come up with a name or have put a name into the intelligence system. We have lost this because it is deemed wasteful and inefficient to have this type of officer in the service. The accountants cannot measure what he or she has done so its time for goodbye.
Every crime that is reported, no matter how serious, a unifromed Police officer attends in the first instance. From there he or she decides the next step in the process of investigation. This may be delegated to a supervisor but itis uniform who are the first line.
The learning of this type of experience is not learnt after 1 year, 2 years or even 3 years. Itis continual over the length of service. Itis vital to learn what to do and what not to do, even at very minor crimes. Too many officers come into the job and either leave to go to a perceived more popular group or department, leave the job altogether or seek positions away from what we should be doing far too early in their careers to have learnt and understood the wide appreciation and experience of how we do this thing called Policing. Policing has changed because of the political interference and constant financial measuring of ever changing performance targets. The skill of Policing has not really changed that much. It does not benefit from such constant changes. We have become reactive and response led because we have lost our finger on the pulse of the community.
Everyone wants to change things when their chance comes. To make brave statements of intent, to show they know what they are talking about and to be seen to make it different and perhaps a little better, but for who exactly ?
I must go and find a darkened room now. The thought of all these different teams, all these different empires being built, all these different targets that will come into place, all these different areas of competition that will be in competition to see who is doing best and itis clear that this utopia of a well oiled machine working in unison is a work of fiction or a deranged mind.
Click………………darkness at last.
whichendbites
One of the best and most comprehensive rants anywhere on the web. Well done!
Whichendbites – we still have ONE of those career beat officers you mention at our nick. He is the fount of all knowledge. Any crime that comes in, he has a ‘hunch’ as to who did it and he is ALWAYS right. He solves more crimes in a day than every other officer does in a month and everybody comes to him for information/ intelligence. He retires next year – i predict a downward trend in detections….also, we believe he is the scriptwriter for Life On Mars.
whichendbites
Top post, your the end that bites today, well done!
I would like to ask a question of what happens after yet another round civilianisation when Unison have a strike. Last time we were pushed to breaking point, custody suites called drew staff in, patrol strength suffered, over time went through the roof as it was double time. Nobody from the Chief down even came close to estimating the disruption it caused to “normal running” so surely with even more civilianisation the impact will be greater. Lets not forget the governments attitude on pay WILL lead to even more disputes and strikes and if were mostly civilian that will mean a practical suspension of Policing in the UK.
Is that Sir Ronnies chosen legacy to be responsible for creating conditions where the Police cant provide Policing regardless of any other factor?
Currently we can at least reassign Officers from teams to cover or drag Officers in for rest day working but what happens when these Officers have been replaced by civilian staff who are on strike? Who will go to calls, who will answer the phone, who will deploy units, staff the custody suites, etc? They cut Police numbers much lower and we will be in the shit big time come next industrial dispute. Were already down to 2001 levels, the Government say that Police numbers are up but they also included PCSO’s and they make no mention of the retrograde steps being taken and in a few more years well have less Police numbers than we did pre NuLabour.
(Of course you could make the perfect argument that real world Police numbers are lower than they have been for decades due to the Political Policies of the last decade)
Lets be clear the civilian staff have no restrictions in law against striking at all.
NB: The last time they went on strike we reassigned Officers and funnily enough crime did not rise, arrests did, in fact as far as the business of fighting crime went nobody noticed the difference at all. Of course some figures weren’t collected and charts weren’t made but crime actually took a battering down in most areas.
What Whichendbites said but not as well written or as well argued.
I thought that Peel’s Principle No 7 pointed out that the Police were only ordinary members of the public who are paid to do full time what is incumbent on us all, all the time?
Is Jan Berry speaking for the ordinary copper when she fears that these proposed changes will cause a slide into the continental scenario, with forces that only handle confrontation? Cos if she is right, then I fear that it is planned that way. So that those who are left can all sign up for EUROGENDFOR. http://www.eurogendfor.eu And at least some of the middle class resentment of the police is because that trend has already been noted.
I agree with Insp Gadget re Which End Bites.
Already in one news site I have seen it says that the role of air observer can quite easily be done by a civilian ( I await the storm to follow – including underwater search and all surveillance not requiring an arresting officer), but that is not my main reason for writing.
I am curious where all these civilian posts are to come from? They cannot be existing, for they are already doing a full time job – so where from? Someone will have to train them and, till they get experience, supervise them. Then they will get their own supervisors and chain of command. When they have to work 24×7x365 shifts, which they will if they are going to be of any use, then they will get shift allowances. We will soon be in the position as we were in some FCR’s where when officers not at the top of pay scales were replaced, where the civilians actually cost more than the officer they replace. I am not against civilianisation, i was one myself after i retired, and I can still see a few places where civilianisation can take place. But not on this scale.
So, its clear to a lesser mortal now on the retired pile that this is going to cost a small fortune and take years to implement – so, there will have to be a huge number less of sworn constables. I am not talking a thousand or two, I am talking tens of thousands.
I only ask in case there are simpler ways of reducing paper and form filling, leaving constables and sergeants available as in the old days for beat duty which is what the public wants – not a crowd more faceless people (with the right to strike of course – and then who fills in the paperwork, observes in the helicopter and trawls some rat infested backwater for body parts).
It may just be me getting old and grumpy, and i thought i was a go getter at one time, but this does not seem to me to be well thought through at all. What suprises me even more is ACPO’s acceptance noises!
You think in years to come the Flannigan report will be looked back on as the the cause for the balkanisation of the Police forces of England & Wales into numberless little empires within themselves all competing against each other at the expense of the public. Its definitely started, where and when will it end?
It wont save money, civvies cost more when you ask them to do what we do. Unison for example is looking at a pay claim for PCSO’s when they get more powers. They already cost more than a 4 year Police Constable in wages. Cost benefit analysis of a 4 year PC vs a PCSO is no contest, PCSO’s cant by definition provide a fraction benefit a 4 year PC can.
I know PCSO’s that clear £30,000 with shift allowance and overtime. The pensions may be cheaper but the wages arent that much of a saving over the full pay scale and the cost benefit is no contest in favour of the Police Officer.
WEB, you’ve obviously had a depressing set of shifts mate, that was an impressive rant. It took me a few years to really become aware of the benefit of actually being out and about walking around and talking to people. As I’ve always been on response I was always either walking to or from something and saw a lot of the usual stopping and talking to people to be an annoyance as I always had loads on being the duty probationer.
The only times I used to actually enjoy being out and about on foot was when ’skulking’ as tupc so brilliantly put it at 3-4 in the morning. There is no bugger about apart from you and billy burglar and all you had to do was find the little shit, which occasionally you did and it was good. But Mr and Mrs Miggins don’t see you sneaking through their garden or alleyways at 0400 because they’re asleep, so to them you don’t count.
It wasn’t until I was actually free of the probationer chains that I could actually enjoy being out and about talking to people, after a few weeks of constant foot patrols you get people talking to you, offers of tea stops and some good intel. The public are crying out for it and I honestly think that the majority would welcome it. And if they could actually give the annoying pissed up 14 year olds a slap and tell them to piss off without getting stuck on… well that would be a bonus!!!
We definately need a return to locally based beat officers who worked on the same patch for 15-20 years as they are an absolute resource and invaluable to the community. I used to know ours and saw him at least once a week until he retired a few years ago to never be replaced. The only thing close now is safer neighbourhoods, but even they don’t do the same job as they are more meeting focused instead of one to one, and they are usually only in post for a couple of years as its seen as a good jumping off point for promotion or squad as you hit all the right points on the diversity and community application forms.
We will still need response crews to deal with public order and emergency incidents but grass roots policing is what the people want and the government refuse to give them because you can’t quantify the role on a spread sheet. How do you measure prevention? if you lock up a shit bag for a year who normally commits one burglary a day why can’t you count that as 365 burglaries prevented?
When I joined we had to do a quick five minute speech on why the following were so important and why we thought they formed the basis of the role of a police officer – protect life, protect property, prevent crime, detect crime, keep the peace.
Thanks in no small part by the government (NCRS, sanctioned detections and safer neighbourhoods) we only focus on the detections, the others only happen by accident or if something really bad happens in which case the SMT’s get a kick up the arse by public outcry to address a specific issue. After the 7/7 and 21/7 bombings we had hi vis (and extremely expensive) presence in massive numbers for months – crime across the board dropped because there were so bloody many uniformed police officers about. After the haymarket failed carbombs the hi vis patrols lasted less than a week.
The public will only respect us if we in turn get the criminals to respect and fear us, for that we need the courts to have our backs and the government to leave us alone to get the job done as it needs doing, not as they think it should be done.
I predicted that absolutely nothing will change only one week ago! I’m sticking to my prediction. In fact, I’ll say it again… all this blustering is media propaganda.
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WILL CHANGE!
you heard it here first folks!
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Of course nothing will change. Turkeys don’t vote for christmas. Bureaucrats won’t accept reductions in bureaucracy, they will just say it is all necessary and cut front line officers and the like instead.
It seems to me that the tail wags the dog. Every organisation needs a admin back up, but it seems that the admin run the Police Officers, whereas they should be slaves to the Police Officers.
I think this comes from the loss of real Police Officers in senior positions ; skills in climbing the greasy pole, spouting the latest cr*p and degrees should not define a suitable candidate for promotion. Police Officers aren’t stupid, but it isn’t a “degree” job as such, it’s a job for people skills, common sense, respect for authority and a desire to make things better.
The Police aren’t alone with these problems ; variants exist in every public sector entity which have very strong parallels.
Out of interest (I’m not a copper) of the paperwork you fill in how much of it, as a rough percentage, is actually necessary ? (as opposed to monitoring, duplication etc.)
IG, I trust you will be posting regarding the Archbishop of Caaaaannterbury and his recent remarks
Different Takes On Police Number ‘Increase’ From http://www.policeoracle.com/news/Different-Takes-On-Police-Number-Increase_15475.html
Jan Berry says:
… We are bitterly disappointed that, despite assurances of record numbers, we saw a fall of 647 police officers in England and Wales during the six months to September 2007.This at a time when ring fenced funding for CSO’s was extended for another year, and we saw an 80% increase in CSOs between October 2006 and September 2007. We had predicted this, but take no pleasure being proved right.
However the real kick in the stomach comes from our chief officers, who instead of demanding no decline in police officer numbers, trumpet an increase in police personnel. They may be prepared to sell police officers down the river, but we will fight to ensure that the politically independent multi-skilled police constable remains at the heart of policing. … [emphasis added
pcmcgarry
Here in Ruralshire we fully support the Archbishop and his ideas about Sharia Law, especially on the Ruraltown Estate.
A few chopped off hands and the thieving would stop, a few stonings for adultery and the breeding of criminal underclass chav kids would cease too.
Drug dealers? execution. Cop Killers? execution. The Bishop is selling it to me………….
At my nick we have uniformed officers split into the following groups:
1) ‘Task Force’ – they drive around in a van days and late turns getting as many easy sanctioned detections as they can (the Chief Superintendants golden boys and girls. He gets his SPP as a result)
2) ‘Problem Solving Team’ – they solve problems, apparently, but are mostly used as a pool for ‘aid’ i.e football matches, demos etc
3) ‘Bike Team’ – see 1 above but on bikes – obviously.
4) ‘Proactive Team’ – for those intent on a CID path. Mostly manned by officers just out of their probation who suddenly don’t talk to you and strut about like Gene Hunt.
5) ‘Safer Neighbourhood Teams’ – enough bile has been vomited forth already so no explanation required there.
None of the above work a night duty (only in exceptional circumstances) and certainly not the SNT’s
6) Lastly we have the ‘Response Tems’ – responding to the urgent needs of the public 24hrs a day. Understaffed as a result of 1 – 5 above, under appreciated, under resourced and highly critisised by all. The ‘untouchables’ of policing, the shit end of the policing stick (I guess I should have put us at number 2)
Now, I have been a number 6 for 20 years. (Don’t ask “why?” – it’s just in the blood.) Now suppose we were to scrap numbers 1 – 5 above and have big response teams. Perhaps we could imagine IG in charge of one of these teams with half a dozen experienced Sgts to help. We could doubled crew all the vehicles then post walkers in pairs out to the various beats. Perhaps we could even afford some permenant beat career officers to work their patch and be the ‘eyes and ears’ of the community. Using intelligence lead policing IG could then direct and task his troops to deal with the various problems that arise on his division. Hell, we could even put out a Q car occasionally (unmarked vehicle).
The mistakes and lessons of the past have been learnt. Surely now is the time to re-invent the wheel?
I’m sick and tired of retired Chief Officers, who’s policies have helped create the mess the Police are in now; reappearing in various guises just to shaft those of us who are still there. These people had one interest only, furthering their careers, and to do so soled out to support any government policy on Policing. Do us all, Police Officers and public alike a favour, retire and shut up-you’ve done enough damage!
With Flanagan’s report, what price would it take for you to quit the police farce. The unthinkable redundancy. Flanagan’s reward for his report is a return to a VERY top police job.
PC Hadenough- You’re a man after my own heart. But criticising Local Policing teams is like denying the Holocaust.
It’s great in theory, but naturally attracts lazy barstewards. They all work 9×5 and refuse to attend anything unless it’s a meeting. In my force, they get a £1500/year priority payment. Response officers get…NOTHING!
Makes my blood boil just typing this.
notaspecialist
It is obvious to me that you work for Ruralshire Constabulary.
Well…is it possible that there are two forces who treat response officers with such contempt.
In fact don’t answer that…………
Big Squads
The Comte de Bussy Rabutin said “God is generally on the the side of the big battalions against the smaller.”
Napoleon simplified it to “God is on the side of the big battalions.”
It took Voltaire to come up with the achingly sardonic “God is not on the side of the big battalions but the best shots.”
So this is my take on Sir Ronnie’s opus after finally getting to read it on the Home Office web site.
Recommendation 2
By 2010 forces should develop data useful for them to understand their performance and productivity.
Hmmm why would we want to have that Sir Ronnie? What could that sort of data possibly be used for?
In 4
Developing a statistical profile for each force, similar to those used successfully in local government and the health service, which would include comparable high level data on staff numbers, objective costs and key management ratios. Prototypes of these profiles should be prepared by autumn this year, with final versions available by autumn 2009.
Ron, Ron, Ron, I thought you wanted to reduce paperwork. I foresee a new suite of management software and a new office full of bean counters oh and consultants with lots of lovely expensive outsourced training
In 6
Mergers are back on again
Recommendation 9
Local ACPO go forth and take every sponsorship deal that they can ethically justify. Welcome to “The Cops” sponsored by McDonalds. Well it probably wont get that bad and maybe we will get free burgers or something
10 and 11
Standard processes and kit for everyone. (See previous comments on consultants)
Number 19
I may be wrong but I think the old Manual of Guidance is making a comeback
21
Proportionate crime reporting. I read this as potentially a return to NOD Advice given but it probably wont end up that way.
22
The end to the dual case file system
A core objective of convicting the guilty
More balanced disclosure rules
We get some of our old charging powers back from the CPS.
23
Sort out the mess that is RIPA. Nightjack’s hint is take it to a judge for anything over telephone billing. It works for the Yanks.
24
A welcome goodbye to Stop and Account
25 onwards
Generally seems to be Neighbourhood Policing uber alles. Just a thought but why not stick nearly everyone in the neighbourhood policing teams and make them really really big, so big in fact that they can be split to do shifts and deal with their own response jobs as part of knowing and loving their beats. Which brings me back to the big battalions.
So in conclusion, I think performance management is really coming with lots of drilled down stats on everything and everyone, we are going to have to spend a shed load of cash on consultants and new software but in many ways its Back to the Future.
I was a career village, then beat officer for 23 years, and dam proud of it too. I did work earlies and lates and even nights throught my 30 years. The old beat team had a very proactive Sgt. We did our own obs, got the warrents, did our own raids and dealt with our own lock ups. Were we the exception. No I don’t think so. I fully agree that there are some lazy work dodging uniform carriers out there. But it gets my goat the way everyone is taking pop shots at my kind. There are good and bad across the board. God I even worked with some good Superintendents. Not many I grant you…
I always supported the call for proper shift/group officers to receive enhanced shift allowence. I would have accepted a lower payment for my easier shifts and thought the day time office guys should get nothing. But that would have meant the Fed types would have missed out…
I’m out of it now but read several blogs and feel for you all. Keep safe and watch your backs..
I recall when I joined, we had large response teams and each beat had one Permanent Beat Officer. Everyone in the nick knew who the PBO was. Most PBOs knew who needed to be watched on their beat. You could always tell how effective the PBO was by the number of kids who moaned about them when you went to jobs.
I’m only talking about fifteen years in the past. It was Neighbourhood Policing at its most basic incarnation – and it worked. The response teams were each allocated a beat and had the time to get to know people on their patch, because they weren’t having to fill out stupid forms, had the discretion to deal with allegations of crime in an appropriate manner and when dealing with prisoners, a very basic file was all that was needed.
Progress? Cobblers! Nothing is new – it’s just been buggered about with until no-one knows what is going on. This job is simple, if it is kept simple.
I agree with Old Duffer. I was a Beat Officer where we did the same thing.We had so much knowledge between us that even Officers from two adjoining Forces would show us CCTV stills of shoplifters and most of the time, if the suspect had passed through our area one of us would know him. We did a shoplifting squad in the run up to Xmas and recovered £1000s worth of property and drugs and gained good intelligence.
Our knack of gaining intell paid off when we were asked to help the task squad on a drugs warrant. We realised that the address they were going to raid was probably not the address where the drugs were. We did a bit of digging and not only found out the other address but exactly where in the house the drugs were kept. We recovered all kinds of stuff. The success of a Beat Officers job is not always something that can be measured but the job will be the worse for getting rid of them.
Good beat cops are hard to put a price on but worth their weight in gold. Working response it is great to be able to ask the beat man where so and so is living now, who fits a description and so on and know you’ll get the answer.
I worked in one town where the local shoplifters didn’t go into the town centre until after 4.30 pm when the beat man finished for the day. And if you got CCTV stills he would identify them 9 times out of 10.
Another guy worked the council estate. We used to joke that after he left the station we never saw him again until finishing time. But he knew everyone on the estate and they all knew him.
Much of a good beat man’s work is hard to measure but the job has lost a lot over the last few years now that (in my force anyway) young cops are more or less straight into response and don’t do even a couple of years as a beat cop at the start of their service.
It is a wasted opportunity. All the wrongs he could have put right….after all such a distinguished officer will be listened to by the politicos, won’t he?
I suspect his reward for all that writing will be a peerage, which I also suspect he was after all alongl there is a spare seat next to Condon. Once safely ensconced in the upper chamber he can help wave through the legislation he has alluded to in the report.
Proud Memories:
One of my proudest memories in the Police was when shits who i had never arrested, stopped or even come across knew me by number an name if not by face. After the first few times this happened, which surprised me, i asked one of the less shit shits how they knew of me and they told me. Basically i had joined the shits collective conciousness , the lexican of local Police Officers who were known by said shits to stubborn enough, active enough, relentless and good enough to have banged enough of them up for my name not only to stick but be passed around.
I am not a supercop, its just what happens when a dedicated Bobby spends enough time in working a given area.
Of course to continue working that beat would have been £1500 less per year so i moved as i have mortgage to pay. I would quite happily work one area for years on end again until i am ready for a change of direction its the best way to Police but no one in authority sees that and we end up covering hundreds of square miles instead.
The government bleat on about Local Policing but whilst they do this they shut more an more Police stations, centralise resources and do exactly the opposite. I realise that its a socialist instinct to centralise power and control but its being going on longer than NuLabour have been in power. I wonder if the other lot have got the brains to let go of the rains, tell Forces what they want, give them the resources to do it, take away the distractions of bureaucracy and control and sit back and see them do it,
If they did things would improve, although the improvement would be limited by the Sentencing Critera but more people would get lifted and put before a court at least.
Whilst i am here:
Can someone explain to me how these new PDA’s or wot not were going to get are going to reduce bureaucracy. Regardless whether your filling a form out on paper or on a screen your still filing a form out! In fact in a lot of cases it will be slower as the screens will be tiny.
The only thing it will save is Rear Echelon Staff putting the forms onto Force Systems but they will be gainfully employed in some other task that will just add to work load of Officers.
PDA’s will not reduce bureaucracy on their own, they have their uses, very impressive uses but not in this way. I think we all should have one already but not for the reasons Sir Future Lord Ronnie of wherever thinks.
If anyone suggests that i replace my Pocket Note Book with one can go bollocks. A Pocket note book is idiot proof, has no technical issues, does not need a support line, doesn’t need batteries, works at night without light, and most importantly of all can be used a means of covering my arse. I have and will use it to record some of the stupidity of my supervisors so i dont get blamed for their decisions. A pocket note book is an evidential document, a record of daily life and means to ensure that some of them cant screw the rest of us.
Where else will i be sure that my Section 18(5) authority is recorded? Where else will i have an independent evidential record for when CPS loose the file? Where else will i record stop searches so i have a record instead of just relying on a scabby little form the Rear Echelon loose all to frequently?
notellin: They have introduced PDAs in Lothian and Borders and as far as I can see they DO NOT save any time. They can be useful for inputting your crime reports and VAs and such like and linking them together but like you said, you are STILL filling in a form. Our PDAs have ‘Bubble Breaker’ on them which is a bit like Tetris so when you are stuck at the hospital with some moron who said they will kill themself but never will you can completely ignore them and play Bubble Breaker instead. And your Force WILL remove your PNB as our’s did so everything is on PDA. Lastly, to the other CBOs here, I have recently became a CBO and the job satisfaction is incredible. People love to talk and it is amazing the information that old granny whatsit has on Joe Scroteface.