Almost exactly one year ago, I wrote about Section 5 of the Public Order Act (popularly known as Threatening Behaviour).
Section Five is classified by the Home Office as a ‘violent crime’.
When the Government want to reduce crime, it is important that we stop arresting offenders for this, and use Drunk & Disorderly arrest powers instead. D & D does not show up on Government statistics.
¿Por Favor, Dónde está la comisaría?
Thanks to this (and other Spanish Practice) the Government can now show a reduction the amount of crime. It now becomes important to show an increase in the detection of crime.
We have now been told to start arresting for Section Five again. We can detect this with one of the laughable new Penalty Notice tickets.
So now we suddenly find that Section Five is back in fashion. It is the new ‘black’. ‘Senior Officers are just insisting on it darling!’
Oooooh, a penalty notice? That’s really going to stop me!
The staff probably think that the SMT are either stupid and lazy or unethical and cynical. Either way, there are still the same number of snarling, drunken, violent and disrespectful underclass out there on the streets.
But then, I don’t need to tell you that.
Same sh*ts different bottle. Same wiffle life with no serious consequences for antisocial behaviour. Bring back the stocks
“The SMT are either stupid and lazy or unethical and cynical.”
Ooo I’m so tempted to say both!!!!
But I won’t!
Ooops…. I just did didn’t I?
Surely no one can “instruct” you what offences to arrest for. After all you are the one who has to go into court and ultimately will be held responsible if its a dodgy arrest. I agree with you on fixed penalties – how many do actually get paid? I wonder.
If they are
a) Drunk
b) Behaving in a disorderly manner
Then I will continue to nick them for guess what?
D&D
John
All I said was that the SMT have told us what to arrest for. I didn’t say they could make us do it. Good point – thanks for letting me clarify.
Cheers – Gadget.
PC SW – less paperwork too!
Spanish Practices IG? I don’t think that goes far enough, this level of crime figure manipulation is (very) top down Government driven Administrative Corruption.
Still it takes two to tango and as you say they cant make you us arrest someone for an offence they either haven’t committed or have committed a much more serious offence instead. Of course the danger is that some very Junior Officers will out either fear for their career, ignorance or never knowing anything else will cave in. However after while they soon develop the thick skin and backbone to do the right thing.
Its quite funny watching the civvy bureaucrats pull their hair out as they try to downgrade or upgrade a job to suit the latest centrally imposed diktats. Often, however, by the time they get their hands on it its a fait accompli and there is little the civvy bureaucrats can do, apart from send Officers bosses grumpy emails which has unavoidable fallout and grief for the troops as a punishment for doing the right thing.
It worries me though that it requires wilful semi-rebellion in the Federated Ranks to uphold the standards of Policing from the predation of the Government of the day. Once upon a time the SMT’s used to be the bulwark but that has been beaten and bribed out of them.
Of course the SMT and Government will claim they aren’t giving any such orders, probably just before giving such orders in informal briefings or cleverly constructed guidance notes. Its common knowledge across every as well as being a long standing running joke, still its not always been like this and hopefully wont be again one day.
Good point boss!! Have you seen the poor attempt to reduce paperwork that is CJSSS (Simple Speedy Summary Justice). Replace various MG forms with one form?
Thing is it’s a 4 page form that is basically the same as the forms it replaces. What a load of rubbish.
PC SW – I blogged on SSSCJ but I had to stop before my blood boiled.
“replace various mg forms” Ha ! we’ve been told to do it as well as the normal mg’s for the file. Absolute tosh it is.
This new black. It’s not a flattering look, it doesn’t do any one any favours.
Here’s one I heard in a police canteen;
Essex officers were sent to a sudden death. Male had overdosed. Sad but fairly straightforward. No suspicious circumstances. Whilst searching the corpse they found a penknife and a small bag of herbal cannabis.
Word is that the (probationer) officer dealing was told by a supervisor to CRIME this as 1) offensive weapon and 2) possession of drugs.
The offences were duly crimed and then ‘Detected, No proceedings’, thus improving the stats.
This story is so incredible, you really, really couldn’t make it up.
ExTraff
Don’t be surprised – it has been happening for years!
About eight years ago, a fatal occurred on my area. When the traffic officers were searching the dead driver, they found a bag of cannabis bush. It was crimed and cleared.
I wouldn’t stoop so low for a clear up and anyone who joined the job to do such a thing really needs to reconsider their career path!
Better to take the drugs from a deceased junkie, keep them safe and then use them to plant on a chavvy scumbag later. Job done. No sleep lost. Natural Justice done.
I’ve found that depending on the particular “request” being made the answer “no problem, send me an e-mail so I’ve got that in writing” usually works.
Having said that there doesn’t seem to the same target culture up here in Scotland. Too much paperwork though not as much as down south but we’re not told what to charge/arrest for.
By the way, welcome to the “failed to qualify” club.
We give out FPNs for section 5 for urinating in the street but Im sure thats got its own law and its a reportable offence??
No ones gone against it as yet but urinating is hardly H A D unless you’re peeing on somebody?? or thrapping the little fella as you pee infront of people ??
This has happened more than once.
Picture the scene, as you arrive in Custody.
Sergeant: “Ok, listen carefully, the PC will tell me why you’re here and I’ll make a decision what’ll happen after that.”
Pc then does the grounds…
Sergeant: “So Section 5 then?”
PC: “Drunk and Disorderly Sarge.”
Sergeant “So section 5 then?”
Don’t blame the skippers, they’re trying to help the PCs out with their figures.
But what an awful system we have.
Cool, so that means D&D is the new kipper tie.
On a (rare) long weekend off so will try and give this section 5 malarkey another go next weekend.
I notice that the christmas decorations are beginning to join the sofa’s and half built scooters on the front of a lot of houses in certain areas (I saw the 1st set of xmas lights on Oct 19th!!) which means it’ll soon be that time of the year when everyone deems it their right to get as drunk as they possibly can, behave as intisocialy as they possibly can, and fight with whoever they possibly can without us spoiling their fun.
Wrong! Now that section 5 is back in vogue, who amI not to follow fashion?
Simple Speedy Justice: I don’t know if it is simple or speedy but last night shift I had to do an overnight file for someone who was kept in for next mornings court.
I had to do the file and then photocopy “disclosure bundles” for the defence; probation; the bench; “some chap called Bernard I met in the mess last night”… Not forgetting to include two seperate sorts of PNC print outs. Not to mention trying to get a signed up MG3… The photocopier will never be the same
I have always sympathised with custody sgts who want to kick drunk annoying people out of their cells as quickly as possible. All I know is that given the choice of another overnight file or kicking them out with a S 5 fixer-I’ll go for the fixer each time
Notellin – an excellent summary of the current situation.
I am a 20yr PC still on response work (Yes – I know!) and I am forever trying to teach the youngsters a bit of common sense when it comes to decision making on the street. In the past officers of my experience on response work were the majority. Now I am a dinasour. My fear is that the indoctrination of new officers is so great in my force, that they end up playing the management ‘games’ because they know no better and are not being taught differently. I shall struggle on, however, fighting the system and will continue being a thorn in managements side until I retire.
Ted – I use that strategy a lot re the e-mails. Works every time.
Around here it’s just another £80 quid for the courts to chase and send warrants out for, on the last count there were loads outstanding…
A few years ago in Dyfed Powys we had a 70% detection rate. the public thought it was great but it was of course load of rubbish. The rate was achieved by some very dubious practices encouraged by senior officers who believed the achievment of the rate would enhance careers.
About 5 years ago we had a new chief who saw through all the nonsense and set about introducing more honest crime reporting.
Crime detection rates will always be mis trusted until they are independently assessed and interpereted to do away with the crap over such things as the choice between D and D or S5 POA which often depends on a certain OCDs whim !
To date I have lost 4 s.5 POAs at Court because the defense successfully argue that no one was alarmed harrassed or distressed by the conduct of the individual. I have even been critisied by the bench for not taking statements from horrified mops whilst fighting with the offender! D&D is the easiest and better power and pants to the bosses, I couldn’t care less about sanctioned detections.
Rant over.
Benji
Big Fella;
Some drunken bum urinating in the street is D&D in my books, not really a Section 5. Every case is different and peeing in a shop doorway in the middle of the afternoon would fit Section 5, in my books.
The government class Section 5 as voilent and then introduce a scheme to let people off with £80 fines for committing the offence – what a bunch of tw*ts.
p.s. I’m proud to say that I’ve never given out a PND in the street, only in custody in the morning when i’ve had to. Completely disagree with them.
“To date I have lost 4 s.5 POAs at Court because the defense successfully argue that no one was alarmed harrassed or distressed by the conduct of the individual.”
Lawyers have tried a similar defence to Breach of the Peace (BOP) cases in Scotland which I think is used for scenarios that S5 POA is used for in England IE street disorder (although it covers many other situations as well).
Sometimes they win other times they don’t. If evidence is led that the streets were crowded, at pub spilling time etc then depending on the conduct, alarm or annoyance is usually inferred without a civvy witness needed to speak to it. For example – one ned accepts another neds challenge to fight. Both charged with a BOP. Both usually convicted on police evidence alone.
For other scenarios like quiet street 3am – a ned shouting and swearing and failing to heed a warning to be quiet. If the police are there because somebody phoned to complain – get a statement later. If it was an anon complaint get a statement from whoever took the call.
If the police came across the situation whilst on patrol? Then its a question of using what evidence is available. If a beatman (I hear they do still exist here and there) heard the shouting from 400 yds away at 3am in a residential area I’d suggest annoyance can be inferred. Were there any house lights getting turned on as the street was woken up by the noise?
But I agree with Benji if either of two charges is appropriate then go with the easier to prove every time for public order offences.
Yes that old chestnut ‘cooking the books’ cannot mention the incident as it might give away who I am to my force, sorry service, this weekend I was instructed to alter some paper work by the duty Inspector in order that an incident didn’t remain on the system as an undetected violent crime. Needless to say I didn’t but I might refer the Inspector to PSD.
Ah the unholy trinity of disorderly, resisting and assault on police… If I had a pound for everyone I’d overnight charged with them
I wish I could just reuse the same file and just paste the names in each time.
Some drunken arse urinating in the street deserves a push in the back so he pisses down his trouser legs. Better result that anything else.
I have always “attracted his attention” by shaking his shoulder. If he swears at me ONCE about his wet leg his feet don’t touch.
[...] was taking place in Ruralshire, we would separate the offenders, arrest them all individually for a Section 5 POA offence, and therefore achieve all of our ‘detected crime’ targets for the next decade [...]
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