You Couldn’t Make It Up.
October 28, 2007 by inspectorgadget
A TEENAGE thug who tried to stab a cop walked free yesterday after a judge said he had “a decent heart”.
Police were called after James Santrey, 19, began arguing with his father when the pair got drunk.
Santrey then took two knives and went into the bathroom, threatening: “If the police come I’ll deal with them.”
About a dozen riot squad officers, with stab-proof vests and shields, broke down the door.
PC Dameon Shaw confronted Santrey in the bathroom, but the thug ended up on top of him.
Fellow cop PC Barry Rudden told Maidstone Crown Court he saw at least six stab movements (Gadget note: with an eight-inch kitchen knife!) as Santrey attempted to kill PC Shaw.
Santrey, of Strood, Kent, was convicted of attempted wounding and affray.
But Recorder Charles George, QC, suspended 12 months youth custody for two years.
He said: “You have got a decent heart. You have got a girlfriend now, so good luck to you.”
Inspector Gadget wants to know; who is now in charge in this country? The message this sends out to the underclass in Strood cannot be underestimated. You can bet that within hours they will have heard about it and learned the lesson. How are Kent police now supposed to police the estates now?
(Main story from - The Sun online edition, Sunday October 28th 2007 - thanks to reader ‘Ross’ for the information)
I suppose we ought to be thankful that PC Shaw hasn’t been interviewed by the IPCC for having the audacity to confront a drunken armed man in his own bathroom.
(That last comment by the way was sarcastic)
It would be interesting to obtain Mr George’s views when this young man next gets drunk and picks up a knife, especially if someone (preferably a High Court judge) gets seriously injured.
Thanks for your support Mr George - I hope you can sleep soundly knowing that your local police are there to protect you, even if you won’t protect them!
Doesn’t surprise me. The Idiots are in charge of the Aslylum.
Hmmm, I wonder what the punishment would have been if the officer beat him senseless with his baton?
Another travesty of justice which gives the criminal underclass the nod that it’s open season on us.
With this, on top of the attack on Mr Chaudary. I really have lost what little faith I’ve had left in the Justice system and, I hate to say it as a person who can look back on Britain’s achievements in the past with pride, this country as a whole. Unless something changes DRASTICALLY I really can’t see things changing for the better.
It’s certainly got a lot worse within the 6.5 years I’ve been in the job so I dread to think what some of my longer service colleagues think. I really dread to think what it will be like when my 3 year old gets to his teenage years.
Fingers crossed for Calgary, I really don’t want to be here to find out.
What will the judge say when this man eventually kills someone?
Just from the reports in the Sun and by IG, this judge appears to have been woefully out of his depth. Then I looked up his CV at:
http://www.ftb.eu.com/lc_cms/page_view.asp?ID=517
and it was confirmed. He is a specialist in Church law and Planning Applications!!
Can someone comment on how Judges are allocated to cases? For the allocation of a Judge of his inexperience of this type of crime is that real bit that you couldn’t make up! There should be at least one civil servant in the Ministry of (In)Justice walking the plank, followed shortly thereafter by a very contrite Charles George QC.
“What will the judge say when this man eventually kills someone?”
That’s easy…he’ll say “Where his views differ from the letter of the law, he will enforce the letter of the law because that is what he has sworn to do”
That’s what bystanders always say…
Who’s in charge of this country now? Not the police for sure, not the majority of law abiding taxpaying contributors to society. Unfortunately the liberal, sandal wearing, guardian reading, new labour, urban ‘elite’ are [ and I'd include members of acpo in this]!
If I were in that court room I don’t think I would have been able to stop myself throwing my warrant card at the judge, along with a chair or two.
Anyone fancy starting up some vigilante groups?
What a great story, there must be more to it surely. I’m no fan of the ‘Bystander’ school of law but things can’t be this bad????
You have got to be kidding!
What hope is there for the future of this country if this is the message that’s being sent out to young thugs?
I’d love to know what the sentence would have been if it’s been a member of the judiciary and not the constabulary that had been attacked.
…..sorry, just had my medication, I apologize for the last comment, of course things in the UK are this bad - just wait for the ‘bystander’ type apologists to comment.
Vigilante groups?
Just give me an old Ford van, some baseball bats/pick axe handles, and a few really pissed off income and council tax paying home owners and I could clean up my local area in a week.
The local NHS orthopaedic facilities might be put under a bit of stress, but hopefully the basyards would get one of ‘da bugs’ and not ever make it back into a track suit and baseball cap!
Yokel, that’s not quite fair - he’s been a Recorder of the Crown Court for many years which would give him lots of experience.
It seems to be “experience” that is the problem half the time. They get used to seeing these cases and the chap probably seemed so young and penitent he didn’t seem harmful compared to some of the nutters the judge has seen.
Ranter -we considered this some time ago an felt staffing the transit with Rest Day cops would be more appropriate. Whats more, they all would do it for free!
Believe it or not there are some cops who i know who were SERIOUSLY thinking about the tranny van option. Their beat was fast becoming a real ghetto before 2 of the dafter neds got themselves a 10 stretch for a shooting. It’s amazing how removing 1 or 2 people can make such a drastic difference to an area.
if I had been in that court room then I would have ended up getting done for contempt of court after calling that judge all the names under the sun, starting with “you total wanker”.
Metcountymounty, you can count me in on that idea, its the only way that justice will get done these days.
Its just so inconsistent, i have read stories of similar fact where the defendant was convicted of attempted murder or at least got some serious time in the pokey for other charges.
So basically given that this was in the Sun every single shit bag out there knows that as long as they only try to kill a Police Officer but fail they will get off and if they suceed then they may just get away (for a short time anyway)
I would be tempted to put this one down to sentencing criteria again but i think the daft arse Judge needs to be tarred with an equal share of the blame.
I mean he said ““You have got a decent heart” is this judge on Crack or something,? Can we put them on drug tests and check their alcohol consumption or something.! If he had a good heart he wouldn’t be a violent drunk who tried to kill a Police Officer would he know! Its a bloody contradiction in terms for Gods sake!
He also said “You have got a girlfriend now, so good luck to you.” what the bloody hell has this got to do with anything? I was not aware that persuading some future victim of domestic violence to go out with him was admissible as a means to mitigate sentencing. Of course that depends on whether such a girl exists in reality and not just for the trial or, shock horror, not exist at all given that defendants and their briefs have been known stuff up occasionally.
Please someone tell me what a contradiction in terms and girlfriend (real of otherwise) have got to with sentencing of someone who tried to stab a Police Officer or anyone else for that matter, 6 times!!!!!
I accept that the sentencing criteria may have tied his hands but his words were his own!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I request any members of the judiciary or anyone else reading to try and enlighten us?
Also the defendant was alleged to have said:
Santrey then took two knives and went into the bathroom, threatening: “If the police come I’ll deal with them.”
So not only did he commit the offence but he clearly had the required intent to commit it even before the Police arrived. This was clearly not a heat of the moment thing, He guessed the Police were coming and planned to attack them with knives when they did.
1) So the defendant got drunk - Self Induced Intoxication is no defence in law
2) The defendant had an argument which led to the Police being called
3) The defendant grabs two knives and admitted planning to attack the Police
4) The defendant intentionally tried to stab a Police Officer six times in line with his original plan
5) SO that’s a planned intentional extreme violence against a serving Officer of the Crown. I wonder if the Judge as another serving Officer of the Crown would have been so lenient if one of his fellow members of the Judiciary been the victim of said planned intentional extremely violent attack.
So what exactly would he had to actually get a custodial sentence? I don’t want to be the victim who finds out!
This is scandalous…however the more and more that these cases are reported then the sooner the pendolum will come swinging back.
That pendulum will not be swinging back.
I have just got home after another shift of dealing the the great misunderstood and what can I say. The s*** has got to hit the fan at some stage but when, I’ll tell you when. It will be when the bleeding heart f****** start suffering as a result of their misguided ideas. Not safely tucked up in their leafy suburbs a long way from the ghetto’s that their policies are producing.
I police a very deprived area and I can assure you that all the staff of other agencies DO not live within 20 miles of the area. They state and cannot see the irony of their comments ‘ It is too rough/dangerous to live around here’ but in the next breath they are talking about empowerment and allowing the community to ‘find its self’ as long as it is not their f***** house that is O.K.
You might like to spend the 16 minutes waching this and mayby freeze the text as you go to read properly. This is where we’re going regardless of whether the subject is UK police/ justice and courts or even the environment.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CKh1mOeXfqE
Cotlake
lunatics……..asylum………deckchairs………titanic………..iceberg………what comes next ?
The problem is, that these people are intelligent. That, in combination with judiciary who have got complacent makes for a deadly combination.
Many of those put up before the courts on this kind of charge have been there before. They know how it works, they know how to play it, they know how to milk it and they know how to push the right buttons.
When a bench has been sitting hearing case after case after case, all with similarly dressed people from a similar demographic, if someone turns up neat and in a suit, is well spoken and says the right things it wakes the bench up from a stupor they’ve sunk into that day. They cease looking at the case in front of them, because this person makes a very favourable impression. They end up thinking “Wow, this person is MUCH too good to be here”… and often don’t look at the implications of the case.
That’s when you get sentences like this handed down.
This guy knew what he was doing. Hell, he even (allegedly) SAID before hand that’s what he planned to do. And when given the opportunity, he did it - knowing that if he behaved in a particular way when it came to court, he was likely to walk away. Which he did.
I am of the opinion that benches should be aware of the “Justice Fatigue” which is kind of like driver fatigue, except it endangers the general public rather than the individual suffering from it. Warning signs were there, it was premeditated… it deserved a harsher punishment.
When dealing with irate members of the public who like to complain that the cops are useless, I remind them that despite cannabis warnings, street issue PNDs, reprimands, final warnings, adult cautions, binding overs, conditional discharges, suspended sentences, community sentences, time off for good behaviour, double time off for periods spent on remand, early release programmes and idiot sentencing decisions like this one, we the cops keep the prison population around 80,300 all the time, ie at bursting point. I think that actually means operational cops are pretty damned efficient in atrocius circumstances. Message to Pc Shaw - Last month I got one over on a bloke who punched me 15 years ago. Play the long game mate, this scrote’s time will come.
The essence of Whacky Br*tain is that a knife is a tool for a form of free expression that is misunderstood by the population at large and the reactionary media, and police officers merely the nasty men and women who seek to deny Br*tain’s troubled youth that avenue for the inner self.
One day, unless we say ‘enough’ very soon, we will all live in the ‘bold sunlit uplands’ of touchy-feelie, police-free youthful expression, and God help all of us if that comes to pass.
Hey there Inspector,
As a Sergeant in the States, I cannot believe this story! Here, even in the midst of the worst anti-police sentiment I have seen in years, the judges are still afraid of being perceived as “ANTI” law enforcement. No pressure like that for yours? Perhaps it occurs because ours are elected from term to term. Great blog by the bye…
Federation viewpoint/action welcomed!!!
Not being an expert in Engerlish Law, can the Crown appeal the sentence? Will they?
Noddy, yes they can appeal i believe, but they wont because a win is a win and they get no more points towards their targets for appealing and getting a longer sentence. Of course the appeal if lost would be mark down. So they get nothing for trying and risk everything if they loose.
By risk everything i am talking about not hitting their targets of course not actually anything of worth.
I once heard the CPS described as Couldn’t Prosecute Satan and this appears even more true after reading this article. I have a few questions/statements to make and as daft as they may sound please consider them…..
How many of the people you have arrested and had to apply handcuffs to have allowed you to do so in the Home Office approved manner? Not many….did you complete a near miss?
How many times have you received a minor assault when arresting a suspect? A push, a shove, a fall down to the ground dragging you with them? Did you further arrest for asault with intent to resist? If not, why not? Did you submit an injury on duty form?
In all seriousness we are shooting ourselves in the foot by not filling these things in and by not arresting for this minor assaults on us. If the CPS decide not to authorise a Charge then it will go down as an undetected crime as you will be a seperate victim to the original offence you were arresting for. (Finished Incident Rule). Ask yourself, how long will it be before someone sits up and looks at their cimbing violent crime rates.
We are all the first to moan at the bean counters in our Job but if you think outside of the box a little bit then we can use them to our advantage. File those crimes….be the victim…force some action.
Submit the injury on duty forms for every assault and the near miss for every non compliant arrest. Suggest that Taser would have prevented this near mis or assault……before too long the H&S Executive will be demanding that the Job equipe us with Taser to protect us.
We need to stop the anecdotal stories of how dangerous our job is….we all already know that. We need to start shoving it down their throats. If the Home Office wants to measure everything then lets start giving them something more to measure. After all….NCRS state that if a crime is alleged and there is no credible evidence to the contrary a crime will be recorded.
We are masters of our own destiny. In this particular scenario this little prick would not have had a chance to raise his knife above waist height before being struck down with 50k volt..Job done…all safe….fortune saved.
One more form to the pile we already have to complete…….it could be the most important form you ever fill in.
Just think about it and when you have tell your colleagues…..please.
Thanks
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=490537&in_page_id=1770
Judge Roger Hayward Smith warned the officer, who was smartly dressed in black suit and white tie, that he could face jail.
He said: “All options are open. I currently do not rule out custody. It follows I shall adjourn this case for four weeks.”
It’s a mad world without a doubt
It wouldn’t surprise me if he did get sent down As an example to all the Police officers
who think they can abuse their position of authority, that type of thing
And whats all this about some bloke being put on the sex offenders register for having sex with a bicycle
Could you keep a straight face and write out the charge, I couldn’t
Sounds like something from a monty python sketch.
I know you shouldn’t laugh at other peoples misfortune. Bizarre
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/26/nsex126.xml&CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox
Inspectors
I hope you don’t mind, but I’ve posted Metboss’s comment on the Police Oracle forum as it seemed very relevant to a topic being discussed.
http://www.policeoracle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6568
metboss
thanks very much for your comment.
Singapore 4D prediction
Lottery Numbers can be predicted with the help of Child Spirits
IG & Stan
Thankyou both.
Stan, I have followed the link to Police Oracle but being IT illiterate (one finger typist you know) I have not worked out how to post, probably need to register or something.
Anyway, I appreciate the comments about not over using the offence of assault police assault w/i to resist but I raise another thought. If the people we deal with start to realise that there is a consequence to raising a hand to a poice officer then maybe we might be able to restore some respect in the ‘lost generation’. Jut because something may be difficult does not mean that it is not worth doing.
The zero tolerance approach adopted by NYPD was a hard battle for all. The officers did not want to be wasting their time with low level stuff, littering anti social behaviour etc but they are reaping the rewards now. Have you seen the respect that American Cops receive from what every police officer in this country would describe as scroat. This is because they know that they will not be allowed to get away with it.
I fully understand that we need the support of the Criminal Justice System (and I use the word justice with tongue in cheek) and that the courts need to hand down suitable penalty to make a difference but we have to start somewhere. The officer deriding the use of PND for assault police needs to rethink their objections. PND should only be issued where it is appropriate and we could all use common sense to decide at what level of assault that this could be used. Please think that if you issued a PND for the minor assault that you would normally ignore then we start to build a history of violence against that subject. That scroat who would happily pay £80 to have a pop is likely to have a pop anyway. At least this way we are starting to move them up the ladder of penalty…PND, caution/conditional caution (don’t get me started on that one) charge and (hopefully) prison……don’t laugh! Remember if the level of assault reaches the charging standard that a S47 OAP charge should be used.
One of the overriding principles of the British Police Force (yes force) is that we are members of public policing members of public by their consent. Yes we are expected to place ourselves into violent and dangerous postions. I do so daily and will continue to do so. I am not superman. I, and all of us, deserve….no demand…..the same level of protection that the law provides to everyone else.
Yes, I have aspirations to climb through the ranks. I also have my own high standards, ethics, morals and a burning desire for all of us police officers to be able to the Job we want to do and joined to do. Maybe one day…….when I am commisioner……
You might want to check out this sad story from the US about some horrendous murder of a little girl, in her own home by 5 Negro thugs:
http://incogman.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/absolutely-totally-senseless/
people can believe anything they read in the paper but do they really know the truth.
i didnt try and stab the officer involved nor did i attempt to harm him in anyway ,the police acted in a rather over the top response and as a result shocked me. They used to much force and had to cover their arses.
First off does it mention they threw an enforcer at me (which weighed 18 kilos) when i was just standing there, nor does it mention that the officer that i was supposeed to stab had a sheild that the knife didnt touch once and nor did it touch the officer so it could’nt have been as ferousious as evryone has been making out.
If “James santrey” is really the criminal described in this article then he should just leave this site. We can see right through your excuses. The fact is you were drunk, had a knife, and were threatening enough that the police needed to be called in. That alone should be enough to get you locked up in my opinion. But when you consider your attempted murder of an officer it elevates your crime from idiotic to abhorrent. There is no excuse for trying to stab a police officer, and your attempt at making one is just further evidence you need to be jailed for a very long time.