Rent
August 20, 2007 by inspectorgadget
In yet another decision reminiscent of a lunatic asylum rather than a courtroom, the man who knifed head teacher Philip Lawrence to death has been allowed to stay in the UK after winning an appeal against deportation.
Learco Chindamo, 26, is serving a life sentence for the murder outside his London school in 1995.
Chindamo’s lawyers argued that deporting him to Italy, where he was born, would breach his human rights. “He could be made to eat pizza, dress in a sharp suit and throw huge orange fireworks at football matches” said his lawyer Schmoozer Mc Schmoozer of Schmoozer, Schmoozer, Horowitz and Schmoozer.
The ruling in favour of Chindamo’s application was made by the Asylum and Immigration Tribunal, when they weren’t busy shagging each other and being blackmailed by thier own illegally employed domestic servants.
A tearful Home Office spokeswoman said: “We are disappointed that the courts have not upheld our decision to pursue deportation in this case.”
Chindamo, who was jailed for life in 1996, could be released early next year if the Parole Board decides it is safe to do so. And the public blame the police for the increase in knife crime?
A Police Federation spokesman leaned back in an expensive office leather armchair, kicked off his velvet slippers into the deeply textured Wilton and said: “The fact that he may be paroled and back on our streets as early as next year is in itself disgusting. Life should mean life. Like it does when you are elected to a Federation post. Ahem. What about the human rights of Philip Lawrence, robbed of his life by a thoughtless knife attack or the human rights of Mr Lawrence’s wife and children, deprived of a loving husband and father? And what if he comes near our new £16m headquarters? Ahem…. Was that ice or just water with that?”
Luckily, in Ruralshire our local hoods only resort to stabbing each other in the arse with a wooden kebab skewer. (This happened, I promise you!) Besides, under the new scam perpetrated on an unsuspecting education establishment by ACPO (probably during the school holidays while they weren’t looking) if this crime happened now, Ruralshire Constabulary would not even investigate it because it was on/near school grounds and involved a pupil/ teacher.
Perhaps someone in the judicary who knows the HRA and law and stuff could explain why he was not locked up for the rest of his life. About 98% of the population want/are willing to accept this (in place of the rope). If he is one of ours and can`t be deported we should at least have a system with which to detain him until he dies.
trees, wrong ones, the barking up of.
There was a furore recently when a dangerous paedophile was deported from Australia to the UK due to a link similarly tenuous to that of the individual here with Italy.
Surely the problem is not that we cannot deport him to Italy, but that he’s coming out a mere ten years after the muder in question.
Another example of the human rights act interfering with how we should be running our country and how the bleeding heart brigade poke their nose where it ain’t wanted.
I am pissed off with the namby pamby attitude to punishment and the way we deal with offenders. I would send him to Iraq with a sandwich board over his neck with some kind of insult against extremists.
Sorry it came across wrong.
Your last sentence says it all.
Spot on Dipper. Life ? What’s all that about ? Should be, but then again, we are concerned with people’s rights over here. Offenders seem to have priority over the victim.
IG, another very good post.
It is at times like this when I find myself being very ashamed of representing our so called ‘Law & Order’. I know a lot of you will say that it is not the Police who are at fault over this and I note the comments in the News -
‘The Home Office confirmed it would be appealing against the ruling made by the Asylum and Immigration Tribunal.’
but I cannot help but feel that our people at the top, (Home Office) should have been somewhat ahead of the game. is it any wonder Frances Lawrence has said she was “devastated ” and “demoralised” by the ruling and is “unutterably depressed”.
I am sure she is so pleased that Chindamo’s lawyer Nigel Leskin said his client was now a reformed character who was unlikely to offend again. Im sure you’ll all agree if we all had a pound everytime we have heard that one! Once again, I too have the same opinion when Mrs Lawrence said: “I am unutterably depressed that the Human Rights Act has failed to encompass the rights of my family.”
I will go back on duty tomorrow and do what we all do because thats what we signed up for, but is it any wonder why when another one of these so called ‘life sentences and Human Rights’ stories come up, I have to take a deep breath.
I suppose we’ll all await the impending opposition from the Home Office, but you’ll excuse me if I don’t hold my breath for a positive answer, on the basis we’ve all been here before.
Sorry Frances that you and your family have been subjected to the so called Justice System.
EHU
I have to say I find this sad and depressing. If I ever came to power (not that I will of course) the first thing I would do would get rid of the human rights act, build more prisons, the belt back in school and try and undo the years of leftie political correctness which has destroyed this once great country of ours. If left unchecked, 30 years from now this country will be unrecognisable and everything our soldiers fought for in word war 1 and 2 will have been for nothing. It’s a disgraceful state of affairs….
Excuse me if I say, “You just couldn’t make it up. Could you?”
Its taken two generations to screw things up so much and it will take at least that to fix it. So dig in folks its trench warfare common sense, law and order, the rights of decent folk vs a load of w****ers who either profit from the degradation of society or actually perpetuate it out the misguided belief they are improving it.
The bloody 60’s have got a lot to answer for, soon as that lot get themselves out of power and out of fashion the better. Idealists, bad idea then, worse consequences now! I struggle to think of one thing that the 60’s improved, comprehensive education aka teaching at the lowest common denominator, freedom without responsibility, guilt without blame, victim culture, load of stupid wars. However as the idealists of then are the teachers of now its going to take at least this generation and the next to get rid of it all and get back to reality (good song)
That Billy Joel Song goes around in my head on subjects like this particularly the lyrics:
“We didnt start the fire, though we didnt light it were trying to fight it” or words to that effect.
Saying that however i think the Human Rights Act is a decent bit of law and i think it gets blamed too much. I think people make the mistake of blaming government (of any flavour) incompetence in effectively prosecuting cases on the HRA when its more obvious to that its simply their fault, again. Germany for example has a “Bill of Rights” far more lenient than the HRA and they don’t have this s**t do they? Of course not because they are teutonically effective in the areas that matter and do it all without screwing the pooch and then trying to blame the HRA. The HRA gives me things i didn’t have before and its not its fault if the government are too stupid to work with it like the Germans or the French or anyone else come to think of it.
Chindamo should be deported by his own efforts…ie taken to Dover and told to get swimming. If we never see him again then great. If he gets to France then we can tell them what sort of scumbag he is.
You can’t touch me copper ‘cos I is got de hooman rights, innit.
The place is mad. We are more worried about the convicted murderer’s rights than the family of his victim. I’m no fan of sharia but in Iran he would be tied to a post and whipped and stabbed by the family of his victim before being hung from the crane on the back of a recovery lorry until dead. Life imprisonment my ar*e.
How much does rope cost anyway?
I was just wondering, as anyone who is criticising the HRA actually read it. Most journalists obviously haven’t, and show their ignorance every time they comment on it, as do most ministers. As with any piece of legislation there are a number of issues, the drafting of the act, the interpretation if the act by the courts and the press and Governments reaction when they get a result that the don’t like. To pose another question, is he was being deported from Italy, not having lived in the UK since he was a small child (4 or 6, reports differ) speaks little or no English, knows no one and has no family, would the same people oppose the deportation
I’m a member of the public and I just wanted you to know that I (and many like me) don’t blame the police for the knife crime problem, we know that you do your best to hunt down the mindless little scrotum-dwellers who perpetrate attacks on innocent people and in many cases you succeed. No, we blame the justice system, who will process the shits you’ve caught then decide it’s societies fault and spit them back on the streets with nothing more than an ASBO. Whereas if I were to kick in one of the little scrotes for threatening my gran I would be done for GBH. The justice system is crap, it’s totally biased in favour of the criminal and something needs to be done. The police are crippled by bureaucracy and the justice system.
Don’t get rid of the HRA. It protects us too. It should be used to Appeal the tribunals decision on the basis that most citizens here like pizza, now and then, and we cannot stop enjoying it just to keep Chindamo happy.
Lobby the Parole board. They are the ones who will actually release him. If he can’t eat pizza then he is unfit to fit in with society.
The whole matter is an absolute disgrace on this country’s legal system. Just because he may be allowed out early does not mean, in his circumstances, he should be.
Delurking to ask a question : is it possible to deport someone to another EU country - freedom of movement etc could just get the next flight back. Hopefully the parole board will say no to such an outrageously early release.
As J says, this is unfortunately a pointless debate. As Italy is an EU state all the wee scumbag needs to do is land in Rome and then get on the next plane back to Blighty. Following John Reid’s recent attempt to be seen to ‘do something’ about the problem, I was asked to carry out a Community Impact Assessment (yes,yes, I know) prior to us assisting the Immigration people arrest an Irish bloke prior to his deportation. He was back home (in Scotland that is) the next week. Which was fine because he hadn’t been in trouble for years and his original crime was fraud or some such grievous threat to the people’s safety. Still, the figures showed one more ‘foreign’ criminal deported. Result!
Thanks to the incorporation of the ECHR into UK law, our EU lords and masters, and their puppets, fellow travellers and agents of sympathy in Westminster, Whitehall, Town Hall and ACPO have tied your hands.
By repeatedly failing to protect us against wrongdoers, and moreover prosecuting many if not all who dare to protect themselves, their families and property, the State has broken its side of the Lockean contract with the Citizen.
They have sown the wind, they will reap the whirlwind. Look forward to increasingly frequent and extreme acts of summary justice.
I can’t see a problem with this. The courts have applied a life sentence for murder and the offender may well be eligible for early release under parole. The offense was committed when he was a juvenile and he has since worked to persuade others not to follow his path into gang crime.
Although being Italian his entire family lives in the UK, and as an EU resident, as I understand it, he would be able to live here anyway. If he commits any more offences, he’ll be back in prison under his life tariff…
Ok, if you don’t like the way life sentences work in this country, or don’t understand how they work (which seems to be most people) - campaign about that.
You may also think that all released offenders should be sent to Australia or somewhere else where we won’t have to deal with them - fine, but that isn’t the law at the moment either.
It would be laughable if it was not true. The only thing I can draw comfort from is that when Mr McNumpty spoke on TV about it he actually spoke some sense, a first in itself and perhaps a glimmer of hope that the labour government is not actually a bunch of loonies intent on destroying the last remaining shreds of the police service. We all know this decision is wrong so why on earth we allow this through the legal process. Just send him back and don’t tell anyone, not even him until he is on the flight!
Alfred of Wessex - Alas, we are not citizens. Would it were so. We are subjects.
And what we are subjected to is sometimes beyond belief.
Just a Woman - Have you stepped into the Gents’ by mistake?
I knew Philip Lawrence - not well, just a bit, but well enough to have spoken to him only a couple of days before he died. He was a good man, doing a difficult job with brilliance. His killer is nothing but a piece of slime. But, much as I hate to say it, he’s our slime. He may have been born in Italy but he was raised a Londoner. It’s quite comforting to be able to say ‘oh, he’s a foreigner, kick him out’, but it misses the point. He wasn’t a tourist or an asylum seeker, he was undergoing the same upbringing as our kids are - going to the same schools, watching the same TV, seeing the same advertising, buying the same clothes and other products. The problem we need to fix isn’t why the system is letting him stay in the UK. Where he was born is a red herring. The problem we need to fix is why the UK is raising kids like him who can do the things he did at the age of 15.
Thank you Andy, you have pointed out the root of this tragic problem.They are “made in Britain” and there was a time when you could say that with a certain amount of pride, I have never been particulary patriotic but all I feel now is shame,disgust and sadness in the way this country has declined and dread to think what will happen in the future for my children and grandchildren.
“Life should mean life. Like it does when you are elected to a Federation post”
Rolled on the floor laughing at that one Guv.
The issue, in my opinion, is not that Chindamo should be deported that is only papering over the cracks. The underlying issues are, what is happening to OUR country, who is running it and for what purpose. From where I’m viewing the country it appears that the law abiding citizen is at the bottom of a very large pile and we the citizens now have to fit in around the Government rather than the Government serving those who elected it.
In answer to Bob - Look up Bilderbergers on Google.
One point I haven’t seen mentioned is whether Italy wants him. I doubt it. He left as a 6year old, and would return as a convicted killer.
Does Italy have a problem with teenagers carrying knives and getting drunk?
Its a little too late to be cottoning on to the impact of HRA. It sets out some basic human rights, some of which cannot easily be forfeited by bad conduct.
It is couched in terms that protect the citizen from the actions of the state and allows for judicial review and overturning of state decisions and actions.
Unsurprisingly perhaps, those who seek to use it most are those who are in a position where the state seeks to act against them. This leads to the entirely predicatble outcomes lamented above. Don’t like it? Vote for someone who will repeal it.
The Human Rights Act is not the problem, its never been. The Germans have a far more liberal “Bill of Rights” than the HRA and have had it for decades. The HRA is rarely used in Germany as its too soft and doesn’t live up to the standards Germans demand. Germany however does not have half the issues placed at the foot of the HRA and has never had them.
The question is therefore how if the German Bill of Rights is more liberal than the HRA how come they don’t have the same problems that we rant about. The only logical answer is that the HRA or their bill of rights isn’t the problem and neither is it therefore ours. If they can get it right why do we have such problems.
I believe that every commentator, media talking head, bleating politician chooses to conveniently blame the HRA for failings in other areas such as weak sentancing, insufficient Police, management by inappropriate targets, beurocrazy etc.
The ratio of Police in France and Germany for example far exceeds ours as does it in New York who have double the Police of the same population as we do for example in the Met.
The HRA gives us all rights we only had before through tradition, its a good thing and people shold stop using it as scape goat for their other failings. I mean why even try to deport a EU citizen, does that not sound like a complete waste of time, money, lots of money and just a media motivated figure management fiddle?
I’m with Steve @ 11:39. the guy came here when he was 6. I came from South Africa when I was 12. I’d be appalled to be sent back. I have no family there, no ties at all. Just as he has no ties in Italy. I don’t always go along with HRA, but I’m convinced it was right in this case.
Of course, another facet is that we rarely get a balanced view of all the circumstances in a case like this. Just the screamin’meejah.
The problem is the short sentence for murder - if he had got 20+ years - and served it - there would be less of a furore about him staying here.
But what a waste of expensive lawyers time and court costs to fight an extradition order to an EU country - no wonder taxes continually go up to keep all these non-productve people on the gravy train.
regards, Duncan
If they can be rehabilitated all well and good. If not then throw away the key or pull the lever. Hard to assess but needs to be done somehow.
Hey ho.
Making decisions to sequester or kill dangerous persons from a society is I think a defining characteristic of the nation state. Yes I know, Hitler, Stalin, Gulags and over time there is a natural correction. I may have an over-Hobbesian view of life though.
It is never a waste of time, money or resources to make a stand as to who we will or will not tolerate inside our borders. Expulsion (whether deportation or exile) to another country is a fundemental function of any state. It is arguable that this is infact a defining characteristic of a nation state.
There is some stuff that it takes a nation to do. The checks on what it is allowed to do are currently handled by the judiciary. Currently they are sometimes taking a wide and liberal view leading to judicial law making and judges clearly flouting the intention and will of Parliament. The cure for this is better drafted, clearer law. Over in the USA, the Supreme Court has gone the other way with narrow and conservative judges.
Anyway, Learco Chindamo always struck me as a dead eyed killer, blood group O rhesus bad. I find it hard to believe that a lengthy prison sentence has improved him as a person.
Yet another Judicial disgrace
I am going to have to go against the grain here as those who know me will tell you I am a great supporter of the abolition of the death penalty and the Human Rights Act.
Ah I can almost hear the drawing of breath and the sucking of teeth… what can he be on about?
Well it is simply this … The Death Penalty .. do you really trust a system based on the attainments of targets to deal fairly with any case that may be brought against you or someone you hold dear by some over zealous senior investigating officer under pressure from both the Home office and his heirarchy bolstered by a clamouring press for positive action … I DON’T
The Human Rights Act .. brilliant .. it is merely the mortals that administer and interpret it that bring it into disrepute… So don’t attack the Act, attack them make them accountable for their decisions.
As for the above as he is an EU citizen he can live where he chooses in any case so any attempt at deportation would fail on that basis alone. It is all a biot rich for the likes of Jack Straw to bleat about the inadequacies of our system when it is him and those like him that have done so much to cause its downfall … the honorable thing Jack would be for you to resign in protest … but you won’t will you?
Jurgen
I cant believe what I am hearing! Someone can take the life of an innocent man and then live a normal life a few years later.
No way is that right and I am shocked that people agree with it, no wonder the country is slipping into the sewer.
God I hope it never happens, but wait till its one of their family killed, I bet Jurgen won’t be praising the system then!
I don’t think its right that a few years later after being found guilty, you are released!!
But then, look at the Jamie Bulger, Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells Murders, their guilty parties got new ID’s when they were released.!
HRA again no doubt!
EHU
EHU Front Line Says:
“Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells Murders, their guilty parties got new ID’s when they were released.”
EHU Front Line as far as i aware the murderer of Jessica and Holly is still in prison, hasn’t got a new ID and the only time HUNTLEY gets in the news is when he tries and fails to kill himself again.
IF your going to use actual examples to back up your dislike of the HRA, you could at least check them first. How many MOPS would read your post and assume as a result HUNTLEY was out? Take responsibility for what you write m8.
I personally as a copper like the HRA as it gives me rights that were only previously a tradition. As a copper i dislike death penalty as not only does it not account for mistakes but also it is a little too convenient.
THe HRA is not at fault, its the government for trying to waste money deporting an EU citizen. Most of things that get blamed on the HRA are actually Government cock ups. The German Bill of Rights is like the HRA on Steroids yet they dont have these problems, why because its nothing to do with the HRA and all to do with the government and their daft arse policies.
Hiya,
My name is Katy Walford and I’m a reporter for News of the World online. I’m writing this to ask you to get in touch with us for your views on policing today.
We are looking for current or former policemen and women to let us know if you think there is too much paperwork and too much concern with you being politically correct etc etc which prevents you from doing the job that you joined the force to do - i.e. catching real criminals.
We are not asking you to give us your name, we are happy to take your comments anonymously, but please get in touch as soon as possible. My email is katy.walford@newsint.co.uk
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Katy xx
pcsouthwest, I hope you do not represent the general standard of police officers.
the guy is STILL in prison as I understand it. He might be freed if the parole board thinks it can. Thats the way the law is, like it or not.
I find it amazing when some posters go on and on about the HRA when it has nothing to do with it, and are being told so repeatedly. It is EU law which has been in existence for a long while.
I guess it is easier to blame foreigners when the failings are at home.
A poor post by Gadget.
Pascal - what is your line of work?l
Katy surely this blogg tells you all you need. I am sure if IG was to post a comment about encounter forms for example the rest of us will be able to give you enough here to fill your paper. In fact I think that one has been done, but talking about paperwork is misleading. How much time do we spend now on the computer or waiting outside CPS offices, talking to CPS Direct or waiting in custody?
Jurgen, I too am a great supporter of the abolition of the death penalty and the HRA, it’s just we have succeeded in the first and await the second.
Pascal are you trying to say that as a police officer I am a poor example? or just that my opinion is poor.
I am entitled my opinion and that certainly doesn’t effect the standard of my police work.
And I think most people here would commend the inspector for yet another really good post.
Notellin
Ouch!
I would hope that those people who read this site realised I was talking about Maxine CARR. Please don’t suggest that I don’t check something before I make a comment.
“Maxine Carr wins identity secrecy 24th Feb 2005″
I have no problem with readers questioning my opinion, (as also mentioned by PC Southwest, I am entitled to it), but I would hope that it was questioned in the relevant manner in order for me to take ‘responsibility’ as you so kindly state.
I obviously offended you in some way.
EHU
To my Knoledge Maxine Carr did not kill anybody.
I am sorry if I defended you, but dont englishmen like sensuality at all?
greetings really
http://mymixedunivers.wordpress.com
As a ‘British’ subject I am happy with British law, it worked for hundreds of years prior to ‘Maastricht’ so as far as I am concerned those that think we would be better under ‘European Law’ can pack their bags and move to Brussels. The HRA does nothing but undermine every strand of ‘British Law’, much of which is based on common sense, not ‘fantasy’. The sooner we have a referendum the better, we can put all this european nonsense to bed then and get back to being an island with ’secure borders’.
No, I don’t like sensuality, and I gave up reading comics, i.e. the ‘News Of The World’, years ago.
This episode illustrates the hopelessness of our situation where our legislature is bound and tied by EC regulations which take precedence over British law. Pah!!
I’d be intereted in your thoughts as to how Ruralshire ought to tackle problems like this.
I hate to tell all of you this, but the HRA is not EU law, it is a statute like any other. What it does do is incorporate the European convention of human rights and fundamental freedoms as far as is possible into UK law. The UK was the first signatory to this international treaty in 1952 (I believe), but as the UK parliament is a duel body a separate act had to be passed before the convention was directly applicable in UK law. The truth is that since 1966 any case could be taken to the European court of Human rights after all domestic remedies hade been exhausted. This has not changed, all that has changed is that public bodies have to take into account the convention and any relevant precedent when making a decision. The fact that the HRA is blamed for a lot of things is often due to it being used as a cover all by the lazy and incompetent, in much the same way as the Health and Safety cover all. Before jumping on the condemn the HRA bandwagon and joining the gutter press and lazy politicians just out for a cheap headline, I suggest that you read the act.
How nice of sweet Katy asking us for our opinions on policing. I would have thought thst it was patently obvious by reading these and other fine blogs (coppersblog; pc bloggs et al).
My advice, don’t respond to her, she’s a journo for the News of the Screws whose readership in the main probably don’t much like us anyway. Never trust a tabloid hack colleagues.
Pirellibelli xx.
I really don’t care who wrote the HRA, or who signed up to it, it aint working so get rid of it.
Justacop;
I have got to disagree with you on the HRA and i am clearly more in line with joseph K’s consideration of the HRA and i have detailed why in several above posts. On another note:
“justacop Says:
I gave up reading comics, i.e. the ‘News Of The World’, years ago.”
I must say you beat to the punch on that one m8 its the exact line i was going to use. I really cant support a “NEWS” paper that boosted its readership by provoking a riot and thereby disturbing the Queens Peace over the suggested Megans Law / Sarahs law thing. My recollection of which is that due to the front page story a lot of people who would be quite OK with rioting and quite a few who wouldn’t normally be motivated that way ended up attacking, amongst others, a paediatrician’s home mainly because they were to thick or badly educated or drunk to care about the difference. My personal view of the partial Sarah’s law brought into statue is still undecided and ill wait for the evidence of its success or failure to come in.
Its quite a popular paper in our nick by the way, well in cells (the actual cells) as after they have looked at all the nice pictures they find it quite absorbent.
and
“Pirellibelli
whose readership in the main probably don’t much like us anyway.”
I think that’s because we spend most of time trying to lock them up.
Insp Gadget:
Guv can we have a news post, the replies on this one are going around in circles and nothing new is being said?
We’ll agree to disgaree then.
What no one seems to have realised is why was Learno Chindamo in this country in the first place ? I would beat £100 it was because she was/is a pro single mum and gets more in benefits than in Italy !
You cant blame them:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6966493.stm
‘Joseph K’
She was found guilty for helping him, just as bad!
Then, for finding her guilty, we give her a new ID.
EHU
I can’t remember exactly what crime she was charged with, but was Maxine Carr not found guilty of helping conceal the crime rather than helping to kill the little girls. It may be a fine point but your posts give the impression that she was at first guilty of murder then guilty of helping to kill, (which would also be murder or manslaughter depending on the circumstances) I am not condoning her actions or saying that she should not be imprisoned for life, just that when making a point about something as technical as criminal law it is important to be precise. After all the difference between murder manslaughter, GBH or ABH is often intention and/or luck.
She was found guilty of perverting the course of justice but cleared of assisting an offender.
Still a lowlife!!
pcsouthwest, Thank you, agreed she is a lowlife.
Isn’t it all more technical than that?
The killer was given a mandatory life sentence for murder. This means that he can only come out of prison on parole. He can only be granted parole if he is judged no longer to pose a serious danger to the public.
The parole board having decided that he does not pose such a danger, he is coming out of jail.
As he does not pose a threat, it is logically impossible to deport him on the basis that he constitutes a serious danger to the public (otherwise the decision to allow him out on parole must have been seriously flawed and he should go back to prison).
Had he been convicted of a lesser offence than murder, been released from prison after serving his jail term and at that point been judged to be a serious danger to the public THEN his deportation might have been possible, although probably morally unjustifiable - the Italians don’t deserve him any more than we do.