Forget Your Future Plans
July 25, 2007 by inspectorgadget
Penny Lane has just started her first full time job in Metro City. It doesn’t pay much, but it’s a start and her parents are proud of her. Three years at college and a series of part time jobs after school to provide references, have served her well.
Her mum helped her choose some new clothes on the Tuesday before she started. The shops are less crowded then. And there is time to change anything that doesn’t look right before the weekend.
Penny Lane was nervous on Monday but she had to see it through. She did. See it through that is. And on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. Things went well. She liked the job, the people and even the train journey to Metrocity. She was tired, but it was worth it.
The only slight tension was the short walk through the subway pedestrian tunnel from the main platform at Ruraltown station to the car-park. But it’s OK. I mean, her mum is waiting at the other end with the car isn’t she? and there are CCTV cameras in the tunnel aren’t there? I mean to say, no-one would attack a girl in broad daylight on CCTV would they!
Oh yes they would. Geordie (we have met him before) is short of cash for his butane gas habit on Friday. The school kids who usually sell skunk for him have gone away on an end of term school trip. He hangs around in the tunnel and sees Penny Lane.
Years of the constant revolving door criminal justice system have robbed him of any respect he may have once had for the Courts. As for the police, he doesn’t care about us because all we do is put him in Court. If police arrive at the scene of one of his crimes he may run, he may not. It doesn’t really matter, the outcome is the same. Nothing will happen.
Geordie steps up to Penny Lane. Having watched too much TV, she expects him to make some demand or shout at her. What he actually does is simply smash her face in, stamp on her head a few times when she is on the ground and take her purse, mobile and mp3 player. She would have handed it all over anyway, but he enjoys the violence.
It’s a month later and I’m sitting in a private room at Ruraltown police station with Mr & Mrs Lane. They have come in to ask about the phone call they received from a young CID officer yesterday. He has explained to them that CPS have decided to discontinue the case due to lack of evidence.
After dropping the original charge from Robbery (serious prison sentence) to an assault and theft (minor prison sentence, if there are any places, heavily discounted under various early release schemes) they have now decided not to go to Court at all.
I have read the CPS advice. Penny Lane picked out the wrong man in a line up, the solicitor made sure that all the men looked the same with their hoods up. Geordie doesn’t deny the forensic but claims he walked past after the attack! There was no tape in the CCTV system. The police couldn’t find any of the stolen property and there are no other witnesses.
“But he did it” they say. “That was him, that was the guy” wasn’t it Inspector? They sit quietly, backs straight. Mr Lane is in a tie. He is angry but he holds it in. They use my title. I don’t deserve it.
Silently, I am cursing this country. What a criminal waste of a great nation. That we have come to this. We can’t even protect our own decent people.
All so the liberal elite can win their philosophical arguments. I shake their hands and show them out. Penny Lane will not work in Metrocity again. Her mum will get her a job as a receptionist at her work.
Maybe in a month or two.
Geordie hangs around the railway station holding up a single, solitary finger at the CCTV. And at this country. He bites the hand that feeds him. And he hates all of us.
Whatever liberty this kind of system protects is starting to come at too high a price.
First in
I think you have your first package, it’s now personal which is ALWAYS the way to take it, emotion is the engine of results, I always say 2im now your personal officer “he won’t be able to stand the attention
[...] The truth hurts I worry about this country sometimes. [...]
It won’t be too long before the vigilantes appear…….
Scum like this would benefit from a good thrashing with a baseball bat!!
I have always wondered why we the police officers’ have to inform the victim of the decisions made by the Criminal Protection Society (CPS). Wouldn’t it be good if for once the CPS case worker had to break the news to the victim face to face.
Much as I would also like to see scum like that in jail; in this particular instance, I want to know what you think should be changed in the law?
Should “geordie” go to jail because you “think” he’s guilty, because he may have done something illegal in the past? In that direction lies the police state and all the other forms of government we despise and look down on as evil.
I do agree with you though that had our system dealt with him firmly the first few times, he would not have had such contempt for it and would have been much less likely to commit the latest crime.
The other problem is that I happen to believe prison to be nothing more than a “crime university”, and we need to sort out that mess before we send anyone there to be trained (sorry, punished).
I don’t think liberalists are at fault here.
Firstly: downgrading from robbery - WHY? It was clearly robbery by the definition as I understand it.
Secondly: dropping the charge: with forensics that point at him? Even with picking out the wrong person in the lineup I’d say it should go to court. This is probably symptomatic of not enough resources in the criminal justice system.
Then there’s the problems with the prisons of course… but this should’ve gone to court. If only we had enough space to put everyone in prison for a suitable strength, and once inside the prison they actually got some sort of useful treatment. I personally feel very strongly that people shouldn’t be let out of prison while still addicted to illegal drugs (which they should NOT be able to get while inside, that this continues is shameful) but no way are there the resources to do that.
Of course, I’m not a lawyer, police officer or prison officer so I don’t really know anything.
MattW - you know more than you think!
Once I managed to get ‘Can’t Prosecute, Sorry’ to come and break the news with me. After this miserable act I walked away feeling no better, would it make life easier?
Just watched OUTLAW - this Geordie fella needs a bit of that kind of justice………….
Big Fella - is outlaw on DVD yet?
Can’t say too much - got assaulted in a cell by a scrote. Drunk, violent, incident on tape. Got some cuts and bruises. CPS say no. What do you have to do?
As the years roll by i wonder why i still do this job. I used to have faith in a system which looked after the rights of decent people and personally i try to do just that, but when the prosecutors cannot make the right decision because they’re too scared to lose then perhps it’s time to go home.
I’m encountering this sort of crap from the CPS sooo often. They’re an absolute disgrace, accountable to no-one and given financial incentives to keep cases out of Court (let’s not dress it up in the “abortive cases” nonsense eh?) I too feel ashamed when I have dealings with them and have to pass on their decisions to the decent human beings who come to us to help them.
What’s the answer though? What do we replace them with?
Bob, you know what? I read your comment and was thinking to myself:
“Eh? The “S” stands for “Service” not “Society”"
And I didn’t even notice that “Criminal Protection” wasn’t right either! What does that tell you eh?
A while ago I was assualted, with large heavy object, for doing my job. With a witness present- a colleague. Even had some nice pictures of the bruising. Would have been on tape if he had not chosen to wait untill the break in tapes to attack me. Not during the bit where we were asking questions, when it was taped.
The PC that dealt with my assailiant was fantastic. I know he didn’t enjoy telling me that the Criminal Protection Service felt unable to proceed- he had “mental health issues”. That makes it all alright then.
What happened to Penny Lane was even worse- she was just walking past, wrong place wrong time.
CPS - Criminal Protection Service
CPS - Can’t Prosecute Shit
CPS - Cant Protect Society
CPS - Careless Pathetic Stupid
I have known Officers whose promotions or moves have been put on hold because of a complaint levelled against them as a result of CPS discontinuance or refusal to charge. The reason being that CPS despite the responsibility they hold have no independent complaints authority like the IPCC. That leaves aggrieved victims with only one target to hit back at and that’s poor Plod in the middle. Its about time CPS were made to answer for some of their decisions publicly. If they were suddenly made as accountable as the Police well things would change!
Personally speaking my opinion of the Crown Prosecution Service is as bad as the rest of the Legal Community. If they were any good they would be defending where they could make some money. I known firms of solicitors who count CPS incompetence as a resource and no wonder when virtually all the cases i have been to have been prosecuted by a CPS agent who has read the file, briefly, 5 minutes before its heard and doesn’t give a shit.
I was told once that CPS are my partners in fighting crime, now even the bosses have given up on that. I no longer respect their legal knowledge, with a few notable exceptions, I no longer feel they have any integrity and i simply don’t trust them. They have lost entire files so many times, so many tapes, forgot to call or cancel so many witnesses, forgot to read the file, forgot to care!
The only thing good about CPS is CPS DIRECT and now even CPS LOCAL over rule their decisions. They are one of the greatest impediments to Justice in the UK and no one seems to want to change it. Police aren’t perfect but the Crown Prosecution Service makes us look so good it hurts!
Oh yes forgot to say that now refuse to pass of any discontinuance decision made by CPS. They can clean up their own mess! Furthermore if a recieve an unsigned “advice” i send it back requesting the decision makers name!
Interestingly when i get the chance during pre-charge advice i ensure that the CPS lawyer will know that his name will be passed to the Victim as i like to use actual peoples names (not other details just names) rather than just “CPS said” its amazing how many CPS Lawyers don’t like this when i mention it.
Everyday I look at the world from my window……………am I in paradise ?
I remember this.
We have lost the desire to punish. Oh yes we pick on those who take the law into their own hands, as it were, to set an example that the law should punish. But the system lets down those it should protect. The desire to punish seems barbaric and uncivilised yet we are deluged with a variety of measures that are not working. There is always evidence from some form of research that shows what almost everyone wants is not going to work yet in reality the costs of doing sometihng positive (in financial terms) frightens away those who will not accept that there is a problem.
In the eyes of the law Geordie in innocent until proven guilty. The system is not interested in anything else, only what it knows it can defend. The minority who claim we are in a Police state and everything breaches some form of human rights mostly exist within a small ideaology of what it should be like.
Why do we have CCTV, etc etc etc ?
Because we have a system that doesn’t work and a society that appears to blame everyone exept the ones who cause the misery. Society is developing a trend of turning a blind eye and ignore involvement because someone else will do it. Someone else can only do so many things at a time.
On my photo of them cliffs I have some lettering, but yours appeared to have been taken before the lettering got put on.
Oh yes, who did geordie blame for this one ?
It’s not just about punishment. It’s about sending a message. Assault, steal, whatever crime you will be caught, and then punished. You won’t get away with it.
Instead of reality, if the case gets past the CPS, then , maybe, the magistrate will give you a hard stare whilst passing some derisory sentence. If your really unlucky yhe Magistrate may even give you a jolly good ticking off and threaten to send you to prison next time you offend As long as criminals perceive they can get away with it, they will continue to carry on thumbing their nose at the rest of society.
Is probably cheaper the keep the hardcore criminals locked up anyway- look at the cost of their crimes (both policing them and the other economic costs), their benefits etc.
Time I went to bed- getting on my soap box again….!
Its either the 18 hour shift or the subject matter or the 5 litres of caffeine and 2 kgs of sugar but i just can stop on this rant.
We have prisons at Capacity of 80,00 or so. We have 60,000 on tag or so with at about 40,000 of them who should be locked up instead. The majority of prisoners get released early, time off, tagged up resulting in 10,000 per year who should be still in prison.
Therefore we have at least 60,000 prison places less than we need (40 + 10 + another 10 so we aren’t crowding which is actually not a good idea). Even when population growth is factored in this still means we have had a disproportionate rise in prison population or at least the number of people who should be in prison. I believe this is because prison is not feared because its not used as it once was. It took a generation to break the system and probably will take at least that long to fix it.
Prison is only ever going to be half as effective as it could be without a proper attempt at rehabilitation but i’d rather have prison without rehabilitation than rehabilitation without prison. After all you can do a lot with a captive audience as long as your prepared to spend the money keeping them inside first and then trying to rehabilitate them second.
Weak sentencing criteria, inappropriate use of community punishments, insufficent prisons places, overcrowding that prevents any effective attempts at rehabilitation and lets not forget a liberal elite making the rules with no understanding of the society those rules will effect.
“Jobs Fucked” as they said on my first day of training! Still we go on, why? Well despite all the above even the most cynical of us secretly live in hope that something, anything, we do does actually make a difference. British Police the worlds most secretive optimists and thats the only thing holding the whole house of cards together.
[...] Forget Your Future Plans Penny Lane has just started her first full time job in Metro City. It doesn’t pay much, but it’s a start […] [...]
Whilst faceless prosecutors consider faceless victims and dictate that real Police officers be the one to pass the bad news on nothing will ever change. Its always the way of things!
Its why most cops at the sharp end always feel left and forgotten when it comes to equipment, resources, uniforms etc etc. Cause the people taking the decision, such as your executive accountants and high senior management are taking these decisions without having to look into the eyes of the people its affecting so it makes it very easy to do. Hence why you find the people and officers around them surprisingly always seem well kitted out and staff get what they want! They have to look them in the face every day.
YOU deserve your title, Inspector. You’re part of the solution, not part of the problem.
“We can’t even protect our own decent people.” The sad thing is, we can, but we as a society choose not to.
I agree with Ian and Big Fella - its surely not going to be long before vigilantes start appearing in organised groups, then the riots will start and then what? Civil War? we simply don’t have the infrastructure in place with the armed forces or the emergency services to deal with it if things get that bad. We might be able to tackle it in the short term but it costs money.
You only have to look at the response from the Met after the attempted bombings (hi vis patrols for 2 weeks) compared to 7/7 (4 months of patrols and the next 5 years budget blown to pieces) to see that we’d be screwed if the majority silent population decided they’d had enough, we simply do not have the Police Officers or military to deal with it.
The problem is, its taken the best part of 20 years to get as bad in this country as it has, and its either going to take another 20 years AFTER something seriously bad happens or it’ll take a near on revolution/civil war. Only after the majority of people stand up to the apologists and liberals, and demand proper protection from the government against criminals who use societies tolerance of them to their advantage, will there be any form of change.
I personally would rather see a smack head or robber shot in the face than find out the same person robbed my mum/wife/sister on the way home from work. They have made their choices, why the f*ck do we have to live with the consequences??
Top post again boss. Well thought and written.
Sadly it sums up all that is wrong with this country, I spent my Friday and Saturday night watching the local chavs act with semi impunity in the town centre. They know all the strokes, the position of the CCTV cameras, carry gloves (coz it’s cold init!), hunt in packs and scarper down more rat runs than we have officers. You can see them eye up the lone reveller on his way home and occasionaly try their luck on two (if there’s at least 5 chavs). It makes me sick, you can never pin anything on them and they know it. they are indicative of all that is wrong with this country.
Sad I know but last night I watched Costa Del Street Crime, the police there can lock someone up for being “disrespectful of the police” and thats after they’ve generaly given them a bit of a dig and roughed them up a bit. Whilst i’m not advocating the police beating up the likes of the feral youths i’ve mentioned above it seems that violence is the only language that they understand and respect.
Thankfully Mrs Gull (a copper too), little gull and myself are of to Calgary in sept to investigate a move out there. Anything to get away from the social decay and the rise of the underclass.
Seagull, sad to say but don’t think of it as “beating up” when it comes to those feral ratboys out there, think of it as saving the taxpayer money on translator services, as you say there really is only one language that kind seem to understand these days.
Good luck with your trip to Calgary, Canada is a beautiful place and I wouldn’t mind moving out there myself if I ever leave the UK.
Given the facts as outlined appeared in her statement, how does a Section 8 transform into an, I assume Sec.47 or 20 with a Sec.1 as matching accessory? Do the Clown Protection mob expand on this? Secondly did we charge the Sec 8 or was it a CPS decision? You know what I mean. Are the CPS in two minds to become schizophrenics?
The-Seagull: Best of luck colleague. I tried to talk the family into going to NZ as they were screaming out for cops but my oldest son (14) is doing incredibly well at school and didn’t want to ‘lose momentum’ as he put it. If it had been 5 years ago you wouldn’t have seen us for dust. The worm must surely turn. We can’t allow this country to go any further down the pan.
I have been following the blog with interest, yet never felt the need or want to comment. I am a duty solicitor, and do defend people like him, and arrange for the ID parades, etc… However the story posted, is a very sad one, and one which stirs emotions immediately. The difficulty lies in the fact that it is easy to scapegoat ourselves, whilst at the same time seeking to achieve justice within a crippled system. The CPS I feel are equally useless, and so do numerous colleagues of mine. We do not rejoice when decisions to NFA come back on clearly winnable cases from their point, but are equally frustrated when decisions are taken to prosecute cases which should never have been prosecuted and are not only unwinnable, but equally usually cause distress to those who have never been caught up in teh system before… Why is it that CCTV tapes in our digital age are changed around midnight, providing no coverage between 23.30. and 0.30, when violence can be expected ? why is it that tere are no tapes that are stored longer, rather than being re-written ? why is it with all the powers that police have, the government persitently asks for more - if the existing powers were used properly, there wouldnt be any need for the other 80% of them… It is a shame that it generally seems to be the average citizen who gets under the full brunt of it, whereby repeat offenders have sussed out the (unnecessary) weaknesses of the sytsem and exploit it. A first massiev step forward would be to change the statistic gathering from detections not being counted until conviction… This in my view would stop a number of cases going to court and getting justifiable discontinued after the first or second appearance… rather than sending it to court, getting the detection, and the hell with what happens later… Anyway, as you can tell, things have been brewing in me for quite some time
Thank you for yor time.
Scrote walks into shop, in his pocket is a note demanding money, scrote has with him a ‘barbell’ bar, he walks up to elderly shopkeeper and clouts him around head with bar, causes cut requiring 3 ‘paper’ stitches. amazingly shopkeeper chases him out of shop. Scrote picked up short while later, with note still in pocket, bar is one of pair from another scotes house. When interviewed scrote states he has a disagreement with shop keeper about a ball in garden or something similar. Admits having note but says he was not going to use it. CPS decision - Charge S39 Assault by beating! They do not believe we could prove the intent for att. robbery? Not even a S47 charge!
Very soon the revolt will start, quietly but it will.
Has anyone ever seen a CPS blog?
How would the CPS lawyer who made this decision feel if it was thier daughter who was attacked by this fella? would they have made the same decision?
When did the government go soft? They talk the talk, but our hands still feel tied. All the ministers and MP’s seem too soft and liberal, as a society we worry too much about people’s ‘Human Rights innit’ what about Penny Lane’s rights? Her liberty has been taken away by this fella.
The reason for CPS gate keeping and decision making was put in place because the question was raised why so many cases were failing,,,the CPS had no option but to blame the Police for bad file preperation ect.
However this has now painted the CPS into a corner,,,,when the truth eventually surfaces the CPS will have no one else to blame but their selves,,,,,,in NZ where I have now emigrated and took early retirement from a job that got worse and worse,the police still prosecute some cases with excellent results,because believe it or not they actually have the audacity to put some one in the dock and ask them questions,and challenge the defendent………you know,,,what laywer type persons do,,,,,.
So my B&B in NZ will soon be open for business,and a discount for all serving plods will be available,
Happy ref ’s
Mick P
Mick P - MAKE SURE YOU GIVE ME ANY WEB SITE DFETAUILS OR EMAIL DETAILS FOR YOUR B&B IN NZ and I will publicise it on this Blog if you like?
Hi Gadget,
Re. my comment “sometimes I worry about this country”, well you are right, I actually worry about it most of the time, but as a foreign resident in the UK, I’ve learnt to measure my words very carefully, apparently I am only allowed to express gratitude that I am allowed to live and work here, and don’t get me wrong, I love living in the UK, but sometimes I also want to have a say in how my taxes (which I pay in full, national insurance, the whole works) are spent. But one too many “bloody foreigners” and “go back to your country if you don’t like it here” have made me a bit wary of what I say in public.
Boss as usual a thought provoking and well written post.
The problem is that ‘Geordie’ doesn’t care, respect or fear the police or courts because he knows that he will face no meaningful consequences as a result of his actions. If ‘Penny Lane’ were my daughter I’d make damn sure he that he would feel fear and realise that there will be direct consequences to his actions. If the state will not protect its subjects from criminals then it is time for subjects to protect themselves.
Some good points raised. Same problems seems to apply no matter who the prosecuting agency is- Crown Prosecution Service or Procurator Fiscal. They take the easy option of getting the Police to break the bad news. We’re also to blame for doing it, and not telling them to do their dirty work themselves. It would cause problems at first, but if numerous Police officers throughout the country did this regularly, the message would get home eventually. I also have sympathy for the view that most of the ‘better’ lawyers eventually end up in private practice, and so the CPS and PF’s end up with the dross.
OG - re Outlaw… only if you buy it from a china man!
A very well written post, Yet again I feel gutted and embarrassed to be in uniform.
I do not understand how we ever managed to prosecute before Forensics, CCTV, etc.
What tricks did we have in the past which have now long been forgotten?
Or was it a case of we had the balls to take people to court and call them liars to their face, and the magistrates/Judges had the balls not to believe the pack of lies they came out with.
Your Rainbow co-ordinator needs to be putting a rocket up someone’s arse re the missing CCTV tape-There might be money available for Digital due to the terror aspect, which would benefit everyone.
We will get him in the long grass!
Don’t loose heart Guvnor the decent Public still want us to keep trying.
Our regular clients don’t change their ways too often so i’m sure the individual concerned will come again. They always do.
Or maybe as a result of their “chaotic” lifestyle they might O’D and meet the guy upstairs. At least the taxpayer won’t pay for that consultation!!
“But he did it” they say. “That was him, that was the guy” wasn’t it Inspector? They sit quietly, backs straight. Mr Lane is in a tie. He is angry but he holds it in. They use my title. I don’t deserve it.
As a MOP and a regular reader I would like to say that you do deserve the title - when it is used by decent citizens who know how to respect others.
Sadly the title is no longer worthy of good men like yourelf, many of us do know that the politicians, ‘career’ police officers, judiciary and bureauctrats have watered down the effectivness of the good police officers and the effectiveness of the law in society in this country.
Sir,
have bought it from Tesco for £10-95, its the bog standard one CD. Its not a bad film but i think they could have done a bit more to it, unless this is the first of a two or three parter.
BFB
I’ve just finished watching Midnight Express. A few of those prisons wouldn’t go amiss.
Yes, seems to be that sort of week. I’ve had my own depressing experience as well (see most recent post).
It really does feel like bailing out a sinking ship with a thimble sometimes.
“Now we have admitted the magnitude of the problems we face and our seeming inability to affect change on the scale necessary to save us.” -Mark Rein-Hagen
A depressingly familiar situation but a very thought provoking post and accompanying comments from others.
Whilst it might be a naive perspective I have, I still have faith in good people like yourself and others in this service that want to make a difference. I also believe that there are others who feel that this country is not quite ‘past it’ yet, but that there are many things that need urgent attention. If people like you did not have the feelings you have and the desire to be there to make a difference, crisis point may have been reached a long long time ago.
Long time reader, first time poster.
IG - another good post.
I would like to add another aspect to the lack of respect of people like ‘Geordie’. We cannot just say they commit this act to everyday MOP’s going around minding their own business. For people like ‘Geordie’ will commit this act on anyone, including us, as they have even less respect for the uniform we wear and for what we stand for.
I’ve had experience of this and a very short summary follows:-
Geordie and others are arrested for S4, Crim: Damage and in addition Assault Police.
Said Police Officer taken to A&E with injuries to head - overnight obs on ward.
Geordie clearly ID with others as main offender for both offences
Geordie charged to Court - Geordie expects he will serve time for this
However,
Day of Court - Geordie Defence Solicitor overheard in corridoor saying ‘Police should expect being hurt, all part of the job description’
Mags: hear case
Geordie fined £50 for criminal damage
Assault Police - NFA’d
This happened in the beginning of my career and I was shocked for the Officer concerned, their family moreso.
Result -
Geordie has even less respect for the system now as he knows he can beat the system and thus won’t be dealt with appropiately, = don’t care attitude!
IG - this is not your Geordie, just an example of another person just like your one.
My thoughts are with Lane’s.
EHU Front Line
The CPS in my area are now undertaking a particular way of dealing with court that I have discussed with defence solicitors. The defence solicitor cannot wait for it to be introduced as they will NEVER loose a case. I cannot be more specific than that, but it makes the present system look positively robust.
EHU Front Line :
I sympathise with this situation, CPS more often than not seek to “Plea Bargain” (even though such a practice is unlawful in the UK) charges of Assault Police / Assault with intent to resist arrest / Assault a Person assisting a Police Officer.
I really have lost count over all the times this charge has been dropped to secure a guilty plea and injuries have rarely been less than a Section 47 (By the CPS Charging Standards)
Every time this happens i raise a stink, a fuss, a crusade to get a written explanation why. Sometimes i do this with other CPS fuck ups deliberate or otherwise but this is the only charge our Management Teams dare not support our outrage.
I have seen clear S18’s in that the serious injury was inflicted with the intent to resist arrest which mitigates the usual need to prove intent to cause such an injury for a normal Scroat vs MOP S18. I have even known the same offender to commit two S18’s in 1 week on two different Police Officers with the same MO and CPS Plea Bargained to 1 sS47 and one S39 and that didn’t result in one day in the Pokey.
I insist on adding Assault Police Charges to any charge sheet if evidence exists even my cynical (and correct) colleagues ask what the point is.
Defence Lawyers don’t like this charge because Magistrates don’t like Police getting assaulted or at least some don’t.
Another great post guv.
Have to agree with most of the comments on the CPS. Impossible to get sensible charging decisions.
Let’s face it if the people they employ were actually any good as briefs they’d be doing well paid jobs in the private sector.
Some people have seen this coming for a long time:
“More law, less justice.”
[Marcus Tullius Cicero (106-43 B.C.), Roman orator, philosopher, statesman.
I really will have to leave this fertile subject matter of CPS alone but before i do i was wondering if anyone has head of CPS HCA Lawyers?
CPS HCA means CPS solicitors with Higher Court Authority’s (HCA) which allow them to appear in Crown Court on behalf of the Crown when previously only fully qualified and trained Advocates (Barristers) would have been allowed. The idea as i understand it is that in a cost saving move certain Lawyers would go on a (very) short training course sufficient to enable them to act as Advocates during pretrial administrative hearings. This of course saves money as Barristers are quite expensive and often unnecessary for admin hearings such as Plea and Direction Hearings (PDH’s) CPS Lawyers who are HCA “qualified” get an extra £3000 per year and its a progressional step in their Careers so its worth it for them..
However like any good idea its now being abused to the detriment of the entire adversarial justice system in the UK. Instead of just being for admin hearings they are often being employed for full jury trials often without any experience of such. Although in some cases even the preliminary hearings are often as important as the trial.
Well what does this mean, well, on the one hand the Defence has a Barrister appointed who has spent all their career being trained in and practising in adversarial advocacy in higher courts. It is their bread and butter, their stage and what they do. A trained barristers knowledge of trial tactics, the ever changing law and trial performance is unmatched save by other Barristers even when when allowing for variations of ability. The prosecution however have CPS Solicitor whose been on a training course who is not a qualified Barrister, whose duties do not leave them time to develop equal knowledge and ability and who most importantly have often have zero or almost zero jury trial experience and worryingly many will have tried a failed to become Barristers already.
The result being that even in strong prosecution cases the defence Barrister’s are eating up the CPS HCA’s and walking all over them even to the point where Judges has had to ask them to take it easy.
If your Crown Court Case is being led a a CPS HCA you have one chance and that is to hope the CPS HCA is very good and the defence Barrister is very bad as a meeting of equals will only end in badly for the prosecution.
Boss, Outlaw is out on DVD just now
as a policeoffiser what to you tink about gossip?
a swedish lady named sofia, velcome and visit me
http://sofiawinterborn.wordpress.com/2007/07/27/sofiamy-name-is-gossip-i-have-no-respect-for-justice/
Is that hot gossip?!
Scum, you cant reason with animals like that.
IG
Top post once again, sadly an all too familiar outcome. What can we do but keep trying and keep taking the bad guys in…… even me the eternal optimist finds it a struggle to keep the momentum in the face of CPS decisions sometimes.
The sad thing is these “Geordie” types, and we all have them, just keep showing up, maybe mother nature can come up with a way of erradicating them??
Keep Blogging Gov, keeps us sane
Guv, look at some of the responses on my latest post…… they are to long to replicate here…. see if you agree with me!
TUPC
It is unfortunate that police officers are thought of as ‘the law’ because it is not, in Gruff’s experience, police officers who are usually responsible for the failure of the law to protect the law abiding. Our leaders seem to believe that we have some absolutely binding obligation to submit to their whim, and that the law exists to ensure that we do, but they have forgotten that democracy is a contract between two equal parties, the governors and the governed, and they seem not to realise that just as they feel justified in acting when we do not do as we should, so we will act when they fail to do as they should. Just as governments will not allow anarchy so society will not allow social collapse.
The formation of citizens’ militias cannot be too long delayed, and it would be a foolish governor who took for granted the unquestioning loyalty of the police and the armed forces.
William Gruff, I fully appreciate your comments. As a police constable I’m a locally appointed person serving the local community. That goes right back to Peel and the formation of a locally appointed person as a police constable.
Unfortunately what is happening now is that the police service has been hijacked-taken over, use whatever term you like, by the liberal elite. Asa result policing is not for the community but, a self serving project of targets that is set by the SMT,Home Office, and does not involve any input from the community.
The community has to reclaim what is rightfully its own , the police, and not allow it to continue to to became a politicized servant of the Government.
“Whatever liberty this kind of system protects is starting to come at too high a price.”
During the London blitz there were some people going round after the bombings robbing the bodies in the rubble and thieving anything not nailed down. Look at the floods this month, there are people going round vandalising bowsers and polluting their contents. Its not new or even surprising. The Geordies will always be with us.
Its not that the price is too high, its rather that we don’t get value for our money.
nightjack: I don’t think that is what Inspector Gadget meant. There has always been an element of scum in society and, as you observe, things are not likely to change in the near future, but those who robbed bodies in the blitz did at least face the wrath of society when caught, now they are actively protected from it. We can never receive value for money when the ‘rights’ of scum are paid for with the suffering of those they prey on. If the price of that suffering were a halfpenny, it would still be too high and no value could be extracted from it.
Good old CPS, just a bunch of useless muppets who are second rate solicitors and haven’t got a clue how to prosecute. It’s incidents like this that make me sick and hate the kind of liberal society that we live in. Soon groups of vigilantes will roam te streets and who could blame them because thats the only way any justice will be delivered to the likes of Geordie.
As for that low life piece of S**T he should be nailed up in public, flogged until there is no flesh left on his back then slung in prison for the rest of his life. I’m sure that kind of treatment would act as a deterrent.
While the story here is tragic and I don’t agree at all with the lowering of the charge - I cannot say I disagree with them not taking it to court. I can also see why they did it - by lowering the charge they’re actually looking for a guilty plea in the hope that they can get some prosecution out of this.
I hope there is more evidence than presented here, because going to court with what you had would surely have had it thrown out. No eye witness, forensic that can be easily discounted, no id from the victim, no link of stolen goods, no CCTV… all in all the evidence you have is… that he walked down that same pedestrian tunnel at some point? Surely you don’t expect that to provide any kind of “guilty beyond reasonable doubt” verdict in court? If it did I would certainly think the system had failed.
I usually read your blog and I am often moved both to tears and rage. Ther are some people who have decalared war on society but we do not know it, they have to be removed or we will fall into anarchy. We have lost the will and belief in the use of punishment and retribution on those who offend, and like the Romans we will be overun by the barbarians.
Keep postingg and showing your humanity.
Regards
Jon
I knew as I typed that I was heading off topic.
Its just that I look, I read and I talk to colleagues and I keep thinking “Nightjack, surely it cant have got so bad so quickly. Maybe its just as bad as it always was. Maybe there never was a golden age. Maybe there have always been wolves and sheep and shepherds (or llamas).”
I am probably just fooling myself. What is left of our tolerant society and values are heading to hell in a handcart with a few of us pulling on the broken brake handle, a few of us trying to saw through the brake cable and most of us just sitting tight and feeling scared about what is coming but trying to baggsy the most comfortable seats.
What planet is DP from I wonder. All the evidnece needed is that the victim can positively say that Georgie was the offender. Ok she did not pick him out of an ID parade but they are not exactly fair and only work in favour of the offender/shit bag. I mean come on all then men in the line up looked the same and were wearing hoods up, how is that fair I ask. It should have been a bunch of guys, all looking different with no head coverings. I’m sure the victim would have then identified the real offender and how the hell could she have been mistaken then.
With regards to forensics I would guess that the forensic evidence was possibly clothing fibres from the offenders clothing on the victims clothing and maybe even blood where he visiously assaulted her. Now if this is the case then you don’t get this kind of forenisc evidence just but walking down the same area as the victim this type of forensic evidence comes from close contact but the CPS are to gutless the argue that. Also this kind of evidence might not be accepted in court this day and age but thats only because our justice system is totally screwed up. The reason it is so screwed up, because of the liberal fools like DP, the very people who have ruined this country.
I am with DP on this, Oh yes I have seen the failure to prosecute many times as well. I also see the paucity of evidence that some officers seem to think is sufficient for a charge to stick. It is for the Police to provide the evidence to the CPS who then decide if there is enough to proceed, an improvement might be a CPS that takes a little more interest in cases and provides guidance to junior Officers early on in their case preparation.
Would we rather proceed on everything only to see that these people are released by the courts to smirk and jeer at our efforts? I think not.
I deal on a daily basis with what officers think is sufficient evidence and I have to say that a lot of it is illegible and irrelevant. This is of course down to weak supervision and feeble recruiting practices coupled with pressures from the top down for targets to be met.
It is surely no surprise then, that corners are cut, which takes us back to the beginning, good EVIDENCE coupled with good continuity is what wins cases not assumptions and hunches.
Frankly I would like to see the Police do away with all the nonsense that has been bolted on in the last ten years by various Home Secretaries and revert to the tenents of our Oath which if I am not mistaken states “…with out fear or favour, malice or illwill…” This was good enough for Sir Robert Peel and is still good for today. Let no one say this is the 21st Century …. as that is just meaningless drivel an excuse for unnecessary change.
If we stuck to this and insisted on Police recruits that could read and write legibly, then we might just make some headway coupled with a legal system that required a reason not to punish severely when findings of guilt are made rather than the feeble …”this your last chance….” routine, then we might, in a generation or two get the status quo back. Sadly I am too old now and probably wont be around to see it but hopefully my descendents will.
Take heart, it is not all doom and gloom, their are more good officers out here than poor so be grateful for the daily sacrifices they make on your behalf ….
Jurgen
What gets my goat is that if someone such as “Geordie” were to assault a relative of mine and I were then to hunt him down and beat the living **** out of him… what’s the odds that I would end up behind bars (or doing community service or somesuch)?
I had horrendous problems with a neighbour who I’d put along “Geordie”’s lines. The police did their best, bless them. I could see the frustration on their faces as they explained - visit after visit - that they couldn’t do anything about it. Every time I’ve dealt with the police it’s been the same. The actual force themselves want to make a difference, but the law and the courts seem to be doing their damndest to stop them.
Liberal elite? Is that why we’ve lost Habeas Corpus? Is that why you can now be arrested and have your DNA stolen for wearing the wrong t-shirt or reading out the names of fallen British soldiers next to our national war monument? I’m sure there are some very nasty pieces of work like this Geordie character getting off scott free, but until the police in this country start enforcing the law for citizens and government ministers alike, I will view you as agents of this openly criminal government assisting them in their agenda of dismantling the English Legal System and destroying everything for which our ancestors fought and died. As it stands, the police in this country seem to have become no more than tooled-up lackeys for a tyrannical regime. I hope you’re enjoying your paramiltary flak jackets and Batman utility belts. Robert Peel must be spinning in his grave. We need protection from corporatist warmongerers as well as pissed up chavs. You’ll be getting your summary powers of execution, don’t you worry - then you can be like any other uniformed thug in any other tinpot dictatorship.
My ancestors didn’t fight and die to be told to f**k off in the street by some dole scrounging underclass nobody either. The Government can pass whatever legislation they like but until you citizens get some bloody self control back the country is f***ed and not even we can stop it.
By virtue of the job you’re doing, you will naturally come across far more unpleasant situations and characters than I do in my daily life. I acknowledge that. The point I’m making is that when those in power openly and arrogantly flout the law - indeed, when the Attorney General and Home Secretary publicly call for the abolition of the rule of law, as happened recently after the Piccadilly and Glasgow ‘bombings’ - then the whole edifice of our civil society is in peril. How are those at the bottom of the social ladder going to respect the law, when our ministers can freely behave like mafia dons and commit infinitely more serious crimes than Geordie could ever dream of with total impunity? The police service has become horribly politicised - witness the calls for indefinite detention without trial by ACPO. I mean, WTF? This is turning our legal system back 800 years! It destroys the very cornerstone of our so-called democracy. Basically, there will come a time in the not too distant future when you will have to disobey your orders or become complicit in crimes against your own people. Not just the chavs. Do you really want to be a stormtrooper? You’re certainly beginning to look like stormtroopers.
The calls by some of your colleagues above for the power to string people up and flay them alive is a stark reminder of why we have legal protections for suspects. However, would I be right in thinking that it used to be the police themselves who brought charges? Is this change partly to blame for the problems?
“Stormtroopers” pah, don’t make me laugh - I have to stand around being sworn at by some nobody on a street corner infront of all his mates and I have to call him “sir” in return? A storm trooper would do that would he? A storm trooper would take his f***ing head off, not stand around asking for his “self defined ethnicity please sir” on a stop form. We are emasculated. We are so far from storm troopers you wouldn’t believe it. There are only a very small number of highly regualted anti terrorist officers who are ever authorised to use the powers you mention. The rest of us a treated like dirt in the name of human rights. Storm troopers! Pah.
And don’t talk to me about democracy. We voted to have a half assed criminal justice sytem that favours the criminals and ignores victims did we? when was that? I don’t remember being asked about that one. And the PM isn’t even elected at the moment. A deal between former Oxbridge students carving up power.
Well, you’re absolutely right about the PM not even being elected. Frankly, after what happened with the spoilt votes in Scotland I don’t think we’re going to have another elected PM anyway. We vote Florida-style these days. Hence, why I referred to it as a ’so-called’ democracy. I think we need the police and the armed forces to remind these fascist traitors - NuLabour and Tory alike - that they govern at our pleasure. Come back from Iraq boys, your country needs you.
Okay, so you don’t have the powers of SO19 or the bastards who murdered Jean Charles de Menezes, but you’ve still been given the power to arrest anybody for non-criminal offences. Why can’t you do that to the cheeky ned showing off in front of his mates? I was under the impression that policemen now got performance-related pay in line with the number of arrests they make, or is that just something I’ve picked up on a swivel-eyed conspiratorial blog somewhere?
Mr or Miss papps, well said very well said.
The act of PACE was brought in becouse the police could no longer be trusted to do the job they had been given.
Sorry police the problems you are facing now are of your own making.
look back 60s,70s early 80s and see how badly the police treated people not just crims normal people as well,
I was walking home 1 night, stopped by police pushed up a wall and hit in the face and kicked in the back of my head, police walked off well happy.
No i was not rude to them at all you did NOT do that then i can tell you.
i had done nothing. im not saying all police do things like that then or now.
I was about 14 then, im now 37 about 2 years ago myself and 4 work mates were arrested over the fires on the railway in and around Birmingham by the BT police from London and taken to Stechford police station {B ham} the way i was treated by the police led me to make a complant against 6 officers 2 bt, 1 custady SGT, 3 officers,
ALL OF THEM TOLD LIES about me, my rights under the act of pace thats just a joke.
The SGTs name is Jones he is a scumbag and the other 5 arnt much better.
Im so sorry to all the good people out their but i will never never help the police again.
Its not the people or the system or the CPS, {they dont help} this is a problem you have made for yourself, most people dont hate the police, but we cant trust you any more,
I was reading bits of this blogg and came across a very sick bit from a police officer
a man in a cell pi**ed under the cell door so the officer used the mans own jacket and stuff to mop it up. the officer seems to think this is great, i think its rather sad that a police officer would behave in such a manner.
Just becouse you deal with such scum does it mean you have to act like them as well.
Do we have any police officers from LESTERSHIRE ? YES all you boys and girls out their in blue, Iv got grrrrrrrrrreat news for you all and the police rank and file.
Good stuffffffff
Yo Lestershire police are you ready for the great news? THE MAN, ROBIN HOOD,
THE PEOPLES HERO, THE VERMIN KILLER HIMSELF, LEON COP KILLER DUDLEY
will soon be back home, grrrrrrreat news.
I must say iv done my best to get him a well paid job and a nice place to live,
God do i love that man.
DIE ALL YOU NAZI SCUM. HE,HE,HE,HA,HA,HA,
Performance related pay, based on how many arrests we make, RIGHT. I would be sitting pretty thanks very much!!
As for the officers who were unfortunate enough to have been given incorrect information leading to the death of Mr Menezes, well they are not bastards but men who put their neck on the line to keep me and you safe.
Some people are so f@~~ing ungrateful.
Hi Boss
Thanks for the offer of the B&B in NZ advert,very much appreciated,,,nearly up and running , I’m going to get one of the local firms in Nelson to do a web sit ,probably next month and I will give you another bell nearer the time if thats OK, maybe Mrs Gadget and your self might like a visit??
Cheers it’s a shit job,but when you wrap it in you do look back and smile at some of the crazy things you had to do,
All the Best
Mick Portbury
Ex PC 1694 (Durham Constab)
It’s not being ungrateful - it’s being angry at the fact that a shoot-to-kill policy was introduced without so much as a by-your-leave in parliament, and that the Metropolitan police lied through their teeth about the incident and actively smeared the victim. It has pretty much destroyed policing by consent in this country. The Metropolitan police force are liars. They murdered an innocent man and lied about it. It looked more like a summary execution than an exercise in emergency management.
What planet is Antipholus Papps on? Performance related pay for arresting people! I could have retired 10 times over by now if that was the case. Where do these people crawl from, sounds to me like MR/Mrs Papps has fallen foul of the police a few times and as a result has got burnt. Then because they can’t have their own way have to slag the police off. Let me tell you I don’t agree with most of the policy and proceedures the government and ACPO set but don’t blame the troops on the ground who are just doing their best to pretect the ungrateful wasters such as youself. As for those bobbies who shot Mr Menezes in my eyes they are heros who at the time beleievd he was a real threat (and after the events of the previous day and week is it a wonder why) and as a result at that time believed their own lives were in danger,we need more officers willing to act in such a selfless way.
As for Mark, again another numpty who has obviously been caught doing something he should not have done. This country is in such a shit state due to a weak goverment which means that the country has not been policed accordingly which has resulted in the scum out there getting a stronger foothold, breeding more scum and as a result a massive social change has taken place. It is nothing to do with how we the police acted in the 60, 70 and 80’s. In fact if we were allowed to police like that now then I’m sure that this country would start to sort itself out as the shit out there would be to scared to go up against us. Before you say that I prove your point with that comment that only applies to the scroates as decent law abiding members of the public would support us. I oknow this as everyone I come across whilst in work who can remember those decades say that they had complete respect for the police and wish that times were like it again. Stop talking about events which you know nothing about and go back to your own planet.
Rant over.
I’m on an idealistic planet to be sure, but if you read my comment again you’ll see I qualified the question about commission for arrests by saying it may have been something I’d read in the crankier regions of cyberspace. With the government keen on privatising the probation services and prisons, it doesn’t seem that far a leap, but forgive the naive question. There is just so much ‘modernization’ going on in our law enforcement industry that it can be hard to keep up. From your response though it seems you are indeed arresting lots of people so why the sense of being powerless?
For your information, I haven’t fallen foul of the law - apart from once as a student when me and some mates ran away from a Pizza Hut without paying (for which I spent a night in a cell). I work in law and make a decent living. I came on this blog because I’m mad as hell at the police force in this country for helping an openly criminal government turn this country into a corporate police state, and was curious enough to engage with some bobbies (if bobbies still exist, you all seem like cops to me).
I don’t mean to tar all the ‘troops on the ground’ with the same brush - there are decent cops and rotten cops - but pumping seven bullets into the head of a restrained man and then lying about it does not make one a hero, and I don’t feel safer with psychos like that in the police force. If they thought Mr Menezes was such a threat, why did they follow him all the way from his flat, let him get on a bus, and then let him enter a tube station and get on a train? Why did they lie?
And that’s Mr Papps to you.
I am certain that those fine officers were beside themselves following the death of this man. How dare we judge them for trying to fight terror and save lives. They are NOT murderers!!
They pulled the trigger didn’t they?
Yea that makes them murderers then, pha.
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