It’s dark, the fog has visibility down to a few feet and it’s Christmas. I’m standing in the middle of a gypsy site next to a confirmed stolen vehicle waiting for the recovery operator to arrive.
There are two other groups of people also involved in this. One group is the two PSU and one Community officers I have with me, the other is the 150 travellers who live on the site.
We can’t see them, except for a bit of net curtain twitching from the caravans, and the odd small cluster of garishly dressed ginger-headed teenagers who walk around us in circles, then stand out of earshot to make obvious mobile phone calls.
This is designed to be intimidating, but it isn’t because I can’t really believe I’m in this situation, so it’s all a bit of a dream. We don’t go onto sites like this unless we are ‘mob-handed’ right?
Wrong.
I can’t go into detail about how and why we ended up in this situation; except to say that I wasn’t even supposed to be there myself, and I had actually gone off duty, but I booked on again and went along to make up the numbers and protect the officers from having to make decisions which might cost them at a later date.
We made the decision to deploy and recover this vehicle to save lives. Stolen vehicles like this are inevitably used to ram police cars or run over innocent people when making off from a crime, we couldn’t live with the decision to leave it there over Christmas (once we know it’s there it becomes our responsibility), so we went in.
Needless to say any County back-up was either unavailable due to the weather conditions (funny how we were available despite the weather) or had gone to their Christmas parties, including the department who furnished the information in the first place!
I knew that if we recovered the vehicle and came out uninjured, the suits who sent us into this mire would use this as proof of a successful risk assessment. If it all went badly wrong, my decision to continue once we were at the scene would be criticised. If we aborted and the vehicle was involved in a serious or fatal accident, it would be my responsibility; if we went ahead and officers were badly beaten or shot at (which happens on these sites) it’s also my fault.
You can see why I went along. I was horrified to hear that PC’s were being sent to make these decisions. I’m afraid to say that these things happen all the time in Public Service; we have to manage risk or we couldn’t operate.
In the final analysis, the travellers decided to leave us alone for their own reasons. We eventually got home very late. It was one of those great team bonding things you only forge in adversity.
at least you can think of the lovely overtime you earned whilst there guv, ooops sorry!
Happy New Year anyway!
I have heard about this before with traveller / Gypsy society / camps.
You wonder whether it is urban myth but you keep reading about situations and getting first-hand accounts.
Why, if it is a culture that seems to operate outside of a lot of the rules and regulations of non-traveller / Gypsy society, cannot they be made to respect the rules and the system, and not be a threat when the law has to be enforced?
Perhaps I am ignorant of the whole picture / issues involved.
You want to be fair and not have gut reaction to things like this - but it difficult.
Know just how that feels boss, we have a large travelling fraternity on my patch and have been on raids, domestics and other similar incidents.
Always very difficult decisions to make and always extraordinary risks that need to be assessed.
I don’t envy you or your troops being involved in this incident, would like to hear the details. Glad it worked out ok though.
well done I’d be more impressed if you did them for minor stuff on a straight equitable basis like everyone else, from bald tyres to the inevitabel lack of tax disk etc
not your fault the politically correct brigade lets them run around the country causing misery and mahem unchecked, while they are allowed to impose their brats on any old school they stop near (tried getting your own kid into a half decent school recently?)
id do the lot of them for tax evasion if nothing else
and to the few decent legal honest travellers out there i do apologise
next you’ll be going to the top floor of the local council high rise where the drug dealers live and all the walls are painted with “kill the police”, no thought not
happy new year
Did you come back with any “Dags” boss?
My brother is an Inspector “daaarrn saarth!” and he told me of the time when he rode into the middle of a travellers site (I believe it was “The Spiral Tribe” new age travellers!)
He did this by accident after taking a wrong turning on his new police motorbike complete with cricket pad like leg guards, a bit like the one in Heartbeat only newer!
He said it was then that he found out about “brown adrenaline!”
Luckily he was able to talk his way out of a potential “kicking”.
I hasten to add that at the time he was Plod on a bike not an Inspector.
A single crewed female PC was sent to a “traveller site” and got a brick thrown through the windscreen. She drove ut very quick and hit the emergency button. Most the shift turned up. However, the control room Inspector wouldnt allow them to go in mob handed to get the culpret due to health and safety reasons.
So its safe abd ok to send a single crewed officer in but not a huge mob of officers?? Hmm
Well at the risk of offending pikeys, and their apologists, how come they can be designated a ‘racial/ethnic’ group. Here in the SE of London and Kent, there remain true ‘Romany’ gypsies, but the sites are mainly occupied by the ‘Irish’ travellers or ‘Tinkers’ to the Irish themselves. I’m sure they’ve other names for them, as they are equally reviled by them as they are us. These awful people claim tradition for setting down in Sainsbury’s car park, or the Thames Barrier visitor car park, and once they’ve allowed officialdom to serve the required notices etc, disappear, normally leaving a disgusting mess for the local council taxpayers (not the ‘do as you likeys’ of course) to pay for clearing up. That’s why you see so many huge concrete lumps closing off entrances all over the place. Near to me is a traveller site, 3 miles up the road, they get everything brought to them, they don’t have to put themselves out - and every so often you read about Kent County Council having to refurbish the buildings there as they’ve been stripped clean of anything saleable. Local planning regualtions are ridden over roughshod by claims they infringe ‘travellers’ HUMAN RIGHTS. If these travelling ‘folk’ want to be accepted, then why not clear up after themselves, pay road tax and insurance etc, stop artifice burgling, and other deceptions such as charging the OAP £1,000,000 for a roof tile, make some contribution for the sites provided, and behave like civilized HUMAN beings - then we in the ’settler’ community (yes we’ve been labelled for their benefit too) and the ‘traveller’ community may get along. But why should they - they know which side their bread (or the bread they nick from us) is buttered.
…and well done, Mr G, for showing the kind of leadership and commitment that is so often lacking in todays Police! Your troops are the lucky ones! Glad you had a good Christmas.
Has anyone else noticed that when a group of travellers (pikeys) moves into an area the crime rate for distraction burglaries, industrial premise burglaries, theft of diesel from lorries etc etc rockets thorugh the roof, Coincidence? I think not. Yet we still get all these do gooder muppets making excuses for them, saying that they are a minority and we should consider their feelings and their way of life. Well their way of life is stealing anything that isn’t nailed down, lying and refusing to bath. Do I want to cosider that way of life, er, no thanks. Ok rant over.
By the way boss nice one for going along with the troops. I can proberly count on one hand the amount of inspectors I know that would show that kind of dedication and back up the officers on the ground.
Ranter, that is like asking a leopard to change it’s spots.
Thanks Gov, again your ability to assume the responsibility of your rank without ‘covering your back’ at the expense of another impresses me. You are a dieing race. A leader.
We have a local so called “Travellers” Site in our village (They haven’t moved for years, so how can they be “Travellers”?) & several times a year we get people who’ve had a car nicked, wanting to know the way to the site to check it out!!!!
God help them… Them & a couple of mates in the back of a car, thinking they can take on the local pikeys.
Having said that, it has gone quiet recently as most of the men are doing serious time. The women however, are now dealing in drugs to keep body & soul together…..
David,
Not sure travellers should be described as Pikeys. I believe the recognised term is itinerents. Which shows at least that someone making policy has a sense of humour.
I’ve also heard use of the term ’stills’.
“It’s all abit of a dream” - sounds more like a nightmare.
You said in your previous post that we wouldn’t believe it; and I don’t. I mean, I do, but… it just leaves you speachless. Glad you lived to tell the tale.
Just how many generators does your average traveller need for goodness sake, its not as if they can’t refill them with fuel, or do they just throw them away when the fuel has run out. Makes you wonder. At least they don’ smear ‘cr*p’ on the ’settlers’ houses much nowadays.
The numerous crime analysis officers that most forces now employ would not be able to find a correlation between a group of travellers arriving in an area and a rise in the crimes described by TAFF - they could draw you a nice graph and do you a powerpoint presentation though which is a really handy tool in any crimefighters toolbox.
The fact that the travellers seem to bring with them a huge ‘magnetic field’ that attracts large quantities of various metal items, power tools and the odd stolen car within a 10 mile radius of their encampment, subsequently deposited at the local scrapyards in exchange for currency is purely coincidental ;-).
How refreshing to have my own experience of whatever pikeys like to be called now corroborated by people in other walks of life. When I was teaching I was aghast at the linguistic hoops one had to jump through to avoid bringing the wrath of the bleeding-heart ex-hippies who always find their way into “liaison” positions. Politely explaining to one such that there is in fact not one set of rules for pupils who live in fixed abodes and another for those who don’t got me sent to an “awareness” course, which I refused to attend and had to answer to the LEA over.
A few years ago I was chatting to a Johannesburg PC who related a tale of two American tourists. These culture seekers took a taxi to the middle of Soweto and then proceeded to walk all the way out. Their shirts were so loud and their camera equipment so obvious that the locals smelled a rat and left them well alone.
Since shorthanded Police Inspectors seldom wander around travellers sites at Christmas I can see why they might think reinforcements were waiting over the hill. I think your colleagues were very lucky you were there.
Good to hear that you booked back on to help. I am on my way back to patrol branch after wasting 4 years of my life in the touchy feely squad. I can’t wait to get back to good old policing and leave the bullshit politics behind.
Happy New Year and keep the Faith!!
Robin. - The Romany ‘gypsies’ came from India and settled in eastern europe in the middle ages. When they came to Britain in the 1400s, they claimed to be Coptic Christians from Egypt, fleeing Moslem oppression, because that got them food and board from the Church. The nickname ‘gypsy’ is a corruption of the word Egyptian. The emergence of the Irish travellers is a bit more mysterious and probably has more to do with the Irish potato famine of the 1800s than with the Romanies.
In the name of multiculturism the Irish travellers and Romany gypsies were awarded a separate ethnic status and this allows them to play the race card whenever things gets difficult for them. It usually starts with ‘You always call us pikeys’ to which the correct reply is, ‘You always call us ‘gorgies’ - which they do.
In answer to he question of ‘travellers’ etc operating outside the rules, the situation is more complicated and, at risk of making the PC Brigade choke on their lattes, I would present the following points.
Not all traveller types are criminals but there is enough of them are to cause real misery in the local area surrounding some of the problem sites.
The powers that be are reluctant to evict travellers from illegal camps because of the Human Rights Act, PC and multiculturism. The Govt Planning inspectors tend to support the setting up of illegal camps if the relevant council have not provided sites.
The types of crime that these people involve themselves in tend to be hard to prove. It is never anything as simple as shoplifting. It is more likely to be tricking their way in to a pensioners house and stealing their life savings, or charging £7000 to pour some blobs of tarmac on an old lady’s drive. The victims are always old, frail and confused they hardly ever give a good description. Anyone convicted of such an offence could expect a long sentence, but even if the Police have a good idea of whodunnit, actually proving it is something else.
For reasons of health and safety the Police need to be mob handed when they go on a site. This means that they cannot go on to the sites as often as is necessary. There is always a time and cost implication and Police only ever take meaningful action as a last resort. Even when they do, they might find a stolen generator/car/trailer, but proving who actually stole it is next to impossible.
If any of the ‘travellers’ are stopped for a bald tyre or speeding, the only way to prove their identity would be arrest them and put them on the fingerprint machine. That could be a three hour job on a busy night and even if they are identified, once they leave the Police station they will not bother to attend Court and they will never be seen again.
The culminative effect of all of this means that these people can behave as they wish. Unfortunately, at the moment their wish is to camp where they want and steal from the rest of us.
Sir, This is your typical no go area I guess, the circling you, this intimidation, can seriously injure one or two officer’s if they went in on their own. When the pips go in, psychologically, the criminals in the group and the tokens who won’t say who the criminal are, start to collude and stick together, I guess it is you or them, the interesting thing is, you out manoeuvred them. And they might not like that.
What I am trying to say is you can’t police no go areas from a distance, basically and quite rightly you engaged that community, and that is good policing…but woe be tide if you got it wrong, your “Superiors” would come down on you like a ton of bricks…….to protect their own reputation and insignificant management style’s…..
I was once parked along side an illegal travellers site, catching up my pocket book with a colleague, not conducting any surveillance of course.
One of the children emerged from a caravan, pulled down here knickers and proceeded to use the area as a toilet, pulled her knickers up and went back inside the caravan. All this right in view of us and any other member of the public.
A colleague recently joined our training dept. During a ‘diversity’ Q&A session she was asked “What would you do if travellers moved onto land at the end of your road?”
She replied that she would call the police.
Next thing she knows she is summoned to see her line manager. Her ‘crime’ was that she assumed the travellers (a recognised ‘ethnic minority’ no less) must be breaking the law, therefore she was guilty of ’stereotyping’.
She is now awaiting further ‘training’ to rid her of her pre-conceived ideas about gypsies.
So, when our travelling friends park up in your front garden, don’t you dare ring the police until they’ve actually burlged house or stolen your car.
You really, really couldn’t make it up.
I am not surprised with the above comment. This is how I read it. Oh my god I am a manager and I don’t have a clue, what shall I do? I have got to do something, otherwise they will think I am incompetent. Let’s have that rascal in…..
That will do the trick. Oh no, what shaii I do when they come in? let me see. I cans pee them off a bit, add a PDR entry for stereotyping, and then send them on a diversity course, where of course they won’t say anything more, which will then make the life of the trainer’s difficult…..But I can say I have done my bit…..Fool I say, fools, this damages community and race relation’s…but the stupid manager gets away with it….
I thought that the police and local authorities like to be kept informed of ‘traveller incursions’ so that the requisite visits and form servings can be undertaken ASAP, and any locally agreed warning systems can be implemented by local residents, businesses and landowners! Nothing wrong with that at all! If my line manager had spoken to me about this matter and attempted that course of action I would have refused and givena full explanation of why. Woe betide them if they accused me of anything underhand or attempted to discipline me. My counter allegations of bullying, prejudice (and the fact they touched me there) - I would have them answering questions from higher up very quickly. Get your Fed or Union reps involved. As my old chum Twining says - stupid managers!
Each time I read of an Officer being “sent for diversity training”, it sure reminds me of something out of Ho Chi Minh’s system. How close are we getting, I wonder?
When a “travellers’” site was being erected at Cardiff by the Council, as fast as they put in washrooms, the piping was being stolen by the occupants. It seemed that the work could never be completed, so they hired my company to provide site security. After the first night, the guard was so scared, that he refused to go back. So I gave him an RAF-trained guard-dog. He went back but during the shift, a note appeared on the door of his hut, saying;”If we see this dog again, we’ll have it for dinner”. The guard wasn’t sure whether they were referring to him or the dog, so he played safe and we never saw him again!
Sorry, should be dickiebo.
My colleague and I had a “caravan clubb member with Irish accent” pull a knife on us and threatened to shoot us for being on his newly acquired pitch. Whilst still perplexed about the knife, or was it a gun, my mate said “aren’t you Smith? I think i’ve seen a warrant for your arrest, we will be back when I have found it” and we left quickish, as we were the thin blue line for quite some distance. Lo and behold next time we drove past that spot it had been vacated. I have since found any mention of outstanding warrants is quicker than going through the courts.
Thanks to XTRAFFICBIKER and Dickiebo for giving me a good laugh !!
The leadership you have shown is the type that cannot be taught in any team building day.
I can only bet that you are well regarded and respected by your juniors and a profound irritant to your senior colleagues who could not command the respect you have in a million years in the job.
It is the jobs from hell that you do standing shoulder to shoulder with your staff which cause them choose to follow the moral compass you set when you transcend the rulebook adherents.
Lucy
A belated thanks for clarifying to Blueknight.
And happy new year to all.
Not long ago in the control room witnessed for a good half hour were the ‘travelling caravan club’ smash their way through some heavy fencing and rip up steel gates to move into a popular football pitch. A cheer rang through when eventually the cavalary came to arrest and evict these pesky critters of the land. A stand off was eagerly montiored on the newly erected cctv. Eventually, after two hours the cavalary was ordered to retreated and to leave it in the hands of the council liasion officer. Boo Hiss. No baddies arrested yet clearly filmed in action. Pure anguish and desperation was felt at the clear lack of action taken by the duty inspector at the time. No explanation given for the blatant crimes witnessed but not pursued. We were being left to be walked on by these critters rushing from high crime to high crime in this area for the next three weeks whilst the council get a eviction notice. Indeed at the end of the situation there wasn’t even a crime number submitted for the damage to the fencing!!
However a last laugh was to be had, when the local ethnic youth, unhappy at their lovely pitch being converted into a scrap metal/toilet, quickly set upon their own eviction techniques. Within days the quiet calm was resumed! I don’t think the travelling club will be putting this site in their next recommended year book.
The cricket pitch is the last place itinerants might want to pitch up. They say ment with baseball bats appear from nowhere to regain the Ashes, oops I mean, the cricket pitch. That is the way it’s done in India…..
It always makes me smile when the low life traveling fraternity pitch up at the wrong place. They picked a park near a coucil estate where I worked a couple of years ago but the locals sorted them out by firing ball bearings at the vans and caravans. Gone in 60 seconds-well not far off! I can also recal a local farmer deciding to spread farm slurry in all of the adjoining fields! He had every right to maintain and service his land-a Policeman told him he could do it!
I still want to know if any Dags were given out by said pesrons “on a never ending journey”
If ao, what’s his name boss? also is he housetrained?
Dickiebo’s comments about the wash rooms of the Cardiff site being vandalised by the sites occupents is simular to my own experiences at our local site. But, here locally the pikies were given a rent reduction, as the vandalised facilities were not up to standard!!!!!
That of course is assuming the buggers ever paid their rent.
Miguel, If all they did was park up in their vans and camp for a couple of days no one would mind. The problem is that a large amount of theft, deception, damage, assaults, dog bites and litter go with them. About 5 caravans were parked in a car park at the end of a cul de sac. By the end of the week the car sales yard had been broken into twice. the car park surface had been set on fire and at least 6 of the gardens nearest the end of the cul de sac were ransacked. In another location a travellers set up either side of a footpath. A man in a wheelchair went along the footpath on his way to work. He was abused and had his money stolen. They are cowards and they always pick on the old and the weak.
Hi all you police out there that hate going to Gypsy sites,
I am a romany Gypsy i talk to police regarding Gypsy Traveller isues, may i add some of your storys are shocking and i do not agree with crime, but you fale to say in your chats that we ie Gypsy Travellers are not all the same, the way you all speak we are. i no of houseing astates in lots of towns that have stolen cars stolen allsorts but thay are not Gypsys but it dose not mean that all people who live in houses are crims, i could talk about Gypsy experanses with the police as well in a lot of cases thay are not nice ,gos bouth ways you see, as for the word piky yes it is an insult as for the person that said thay call us Gorgies yes thats true but it is the romani word for a non Gypsy it is not ment to be avensive.
Reading your letter makes me feel sick why do i wast my free time trying to help the police understand our culture when i read comments like these, and yes we are a race and i am very proud of it
Yes; I’m not too ecstatic about being called a “Gaver” either.
THE WORD GAVER IS THE ROMANI WORD FOR POLICE IT IS NOT AN INSULT,
THE WORD PIKEY IS AN INSULT AS IS THE WORD (edited by administrator)
If the Gypsy community find it OK to call us names we find insulting then that’s OK is it?
Don’t complain about Public Services until you pay some income tax OK?
That is I N C O M E T A X - heard of it? It’s what we all pay so you can use the roads, sites, welfare payments, schools etc etc