I think you all know who I am referring to in the title. I met one last night.
I informed her that she could not smoke in the custody area – she told me that she hoped my next child would be born blind, and that I would die of cancer.
She is not yet 20 years old and has 23 previous convictions. These are for assault, assault police, blackmail, burglary, deception, public order and numerous theft offences. She has never spent more than 8 weeks in prison at one time and has destroyed two electronic tags and breached five sets of bail conditions. She was ‘wanted’ for two offences when we caught up with her.
This is not a unique case. Every Criminal Justice professional in England & Wales will personally know at least half a dozen others like her. She doesn’t know or care about ‘detected’ rates, ‘neighbourhood policing’ or anything the police do. She doesn’t care about robbing you and she’s not even on drugs.
She behaves like this because she can. There is only one thing that she is afraid of. That thing is having to serve a meaningful custodial sentence. You notice I haven’t said ‘being sentenced to a meaningful custodial sentence’. I said ’serving’ a meaningful custodial sentence.
She knows this will never happen, and I know that I will be seeing her again next month, and I don’t mean when she returns on bail, because she never does that either.
You couldn’t make it up. On another note; Inspector Hepworth of “telling the public about resources isn’t very helpful” fame has left a comment on Bigmouth Strikes Again (follow link lower right). This has sparked quite a huge response including from a person who claims to be one of his residents!!
Most of my local pikey’s have biblical names.
It dosn’t stop them from being thieving criminal scum!!!!!
Prison = Protect the Public.
Just randomly stumbled across your postings at 2am on a Saturday morning. Makes me 50% angry and 50% amazed at just how many cases there are like this in the UK nowadays. People like this just don’t give a hoot about anybody; no respect for life, other’s possessions and pride. Makes me feel sick that people like this exist, but is it all in the parenting or not?
They just don’t care, so why can’t we make use of these people, laying roads / digging fields / cleaning streets / taking rabbits to Australia! Sigh.
Ah, recidivists. They know that the system is soft, and they don’t care because there are no real consequences.
Wonderful people, I’ve met a few. Unfortunately.
Regards
Bill
Both my kids have biblical names (not just biblical, they’re in the Koran and the Torah aswell), didn’t realise there was a link with criminal behaviour – question is what to do about it – can’t rename them, can’t punish preventatively (is that a word?) and for the life of me can’t see what’s wrong with being called Jezebel & Judas.
You have hit a sore point here. Repeat petty offenders do indeed serve many short periods inside, but if the first one doesn’t deter them, subsequent ones aren’t likely to, either. This woman, and thousands like her, are simply detached from anything like civilised behaviour. In theory the old-time preventitive detention order would at least keep her off the streets, but you can forget that politically, given the prisons crisis we have now.
As a sentencer, I can assure you that the pressure is already on to reduce dependence on custody, and to cut down on community orders because Probation is unable to cope, and in any case officers are being diverted to parole work. So what’s the magic solution? Yup, fines, fines, fines for even serious offences. That’s from the Lord Chief Justice himself, so I think they mean it.
Gadget! Where’s the love man? Who gave old Hepzibah a hug? Haven’t you been keeping up with Dave’s proposals for the hoodie generation? That’s how easy it could be – just show her love……………………………oh I see…………… then she might go into one and call you a f*****g peedo – and then the complaint and then the DPS and CPS and oh God!!!!! It’s such a nightmare. As Bystander aptly illustrates – there is no answer now, it’s all gone too far. I’ll just keep on NOT laughing at Little Britain and Catherine Tate.
was just about to write “just like catherine tate – am i bovvered?” when i saw ranter already has!
parenting sure is the key – the problem we find where i work (large edge of town estates in a seaside town) is that many of the parents of the current generation of offenders received such appalling parenting themselves that they don’t know how to do it, or they simply can’t cope.
i was at court for one ASBO a while ago. the 14 year old boy arrived having slept out (his dad had chucked him out), not eaten for 3 days except some sweets he had stolen from a shop and not bathed in heaven knows how long. he has severe ADHD and is probably on the autistic spectrum (i have a kid with both so i tend to spot these things) yet he has totally fallen through the net. all of us (including the police officers!) just wanted to take him home, give him a bath and feed him up.
our team has parenting workers but we need a whole army of them to get families in crisis back on the rails. parents who aren’t coping need someone to show them basic stuff like getting food on the table, putting sheets on the bed and occasionally saying something nice to their kids. and this is the parents who aren’t struggling with drugs and drink to the point where they can’t even look after themselves never mind their kids.
one of my more cynical colleagues has been known to say we should be putting contraceptives in the water…
ADHD aaagggghhhhh !!!!
I’m sorry but the current trend of attaching medical diagnosis to behavioural problems in kids and teens is only of use to the kids and parents to wear as a badge of excuse for what is in fact poor parenting, poor diet, poverty, alcohol and substance abuse and a lack of discipline.
Whilst GP’s all to readily attach it to kids to get them and their skanky parent out of the surgery most Police Surgeons who deal with the ADHD crew whilst in custody will tell you it is a load of tosh.
Thanks for the above comments; I just want to make something VERY clear – I am NOT, and never have, been talking about kids with GENUINE problems and difficulties. The whole point is that if the underclass didn’t waste all our tax money on lazing around, there would be more money and resources for the genuine. Also, the woman in the Blog is 20 years old – I am surprised that the thread has become about kids. When I was 20, I was serving Queen & Country and damn hard work it was too. It gave me pride and respect – NO, STOP GADGET – stop talking about reactionary things again! Bah!
Couple of rants from me this morning.
Google ADHD and you will find several papers stating that it doesn’t exist. ADHD is a way out for parents who can’t or don’t know how to parent. ADHD= Naughty children that don’t understand no! And did you know that parents who have their children diagnosed with ADHD get additional benefits? Mmmm
I believe we should have a 2 tier prison system in this country. The first tier is rehabilitative and would be used for the 1st and 2nd prison sentances. In these prisons, the offenders would get all the rehabilatative stuff they need to help them become non-offenders.
If they come back through the criminal justice system again, then they will go to a 2nd tier prison which is punatative. (They obviously haven’t learned from their first 2 times inside). No luxuries in here. Hard graft! Punishment!
Bleeding heart liberals? Wait until you are a victim of crime and you see how a recividist is treated and their attitude. In fact, come down to custody with me and see the attitude of some of these people.
Rants over. Thanks Guv.
Thanks for the above, I totally agree with everything.
Interesting how Bystander thinks people like this are “petty offenders”, not very “petty” if you are one of their victims.
I think that comment sums up everything we have ever said on this Blog because Bystander is a Magistrate!
While Magistrates regard people like her as “petty offenders” we may as well give up and go home.
This is NOT a personal attack on Bystander, who is as far as I am concerned a respected and interesting contributor to this Blog.
To CustodySgt, do you remember less than 12 months ago when a politician stated in national newspapers that all house holders should be equipped with tazer to defend against burglars.
Funny how he never mentioned it until HE was burgled…..Ironic.
I remember one prolific ‘petty’ thief/TWOCer/burglar/mugger who because of no active punishments went on to bigger and better things…..he is now serving time after he violently raped a young teenage girl. I often wonder if he was dealt with earlier with a worth while punishment, if this young girl would have experienced an event that must surely have devestated her and affect the rest of her life.
There is a sheriff in America (Can’t remember his name but was featured on PCBloggs blog last week) who seems to have alot of answers, ie no soft options, and a belief in harsh punishment. Also, the Military ‘Glasshouse’ prison in Colchester is run very strictly, and has a very very small re-offending rate. Hmmm surely the answers arn’t looking at us straight in the face?
Insp Gadget – apologies for leading the thread off towards ‘kids’, which I didn’t mean to, I was attempting to illustrate how the establishment views all of these problems, and especially how the ‘next’ Tory prime minister may approach them in the future. Somehow, I don’t think he will be the next Tory PM, (please God NO) and society as a whole is simmering with rage with the whole crime and disorder subject. Perverts with the right to get porn in prison,(as if their own disclosed case statements being circulated aren’t enough), druggies winning the right to be supplied with controlled drugs while mainstream drugs are denied to law abiding patients because of cost. How can a man who plucked a child from her bath and did what he did, get THREE life sentences, yet only be likely to spend TEN years in prison? He’ll be 45 when he comes out. I read today that there are more prisoners likely to be released early, before Xmas, with grounds to sue, because of a misinterpreation of the law around Tariffs by the H.O. The EXPERT witnesses being used are all turning out to be anything but it seems, with the guy supporting the MPS Op ORE being charged with perjury. Madness! Scrotes with hundreds of convictions and cautions being released on bail time and time again, ASBO’d or not, laughing outside the court and the nick with an army of socially funded arse wipers to attend to them. We don’t need Insp Hepworth and his ilk telling us ANYTHING – because most law abiding people wouldn’t trust anyone from any public sector organisation who speaks like they’ve swallowed several thousand policy documents and mission statements. We want people to tell us the truth, the facts. We’re quite capable of working the rest out ourselves. Magistrates are helpless, bound up in all the corporate bollocks, pressured about sentencing, they’ve no real choice – and then when some poor nutter forgets to take his/her meds and stabs someone 79 times, or when they’re riding their bike through the park – everyone says SOMETHING MUST BE DONE! – AND IT NEVER IS! Keep up the good work!
Ranter’s right, Sir, the one you talk about, she knows nothing will ever happen to her. That’s the problem.
I appear to have arrived too late as everyone has said a lot of what I think, Ranter as usual has covered most of the common sense issues quite well.
As for ADHD, maybe some human rights nutter will come up with the idea that someone in their 20s or 30s can have this disorder, after all they have a mental age of no more than 12.
It’s not just a meaningful sentence that may stop people like this ass wipe from behaving the way she does. But a meaningful prison to put her in would be a good starter for 10.
A prison where it is NOT pleasant to be, where you get no TV or x-box and 3 good meals a day.
What about the breaking of rocks or some kind of punishment.
Should there be a 3 strikes and your out policy with crimes like what she has committed, the third time is when you get the meaningful term to SERVE in prison. You are right you couldn’t make it up.
Good blog boss!!!
ADHD my shiny white backside. I don’t believe in it, I’ve only ever seen it in kids with pathetic or disinterested parents and I think it’s the most used excuse since ‘ The dog ate my homework.’
As for Little Miss anti-social, Lock her up, for a long time. Three strikes. Once is an accident, two careless but three = career criminal. Minimum sentence ten years then tagged and properly monitored. Go out of your area get locked up again. Break curfew, bye bye.
Tough times tough choices.
I think we have the human rights brigade to blame for prison being a soft touch.
Like the MP who was burgled, they are “right on” until it happens to them.
Public birchings would make more money than the lottery. I just hope these scrotes try to knock off some off the girlies I know. Fingers crossed!
As for the MCTC, aka, The Glasshouse, their methods work, but I fear their is no politician with the balls to prescribe it.
Further info here. http://www.army.mod.uk/mps/military_corrective_training_centre/index.htm
This country is going to the dogs, I have just visited my local shops where I was greeted by about 3 gangs of youths, the first were aged about 10-12 yrs smashing the re-cycling bins, the second were pissed at the subway entrance the third were outside the Co-op asking people to buy drinks, when they were refused a torrent of abuse ensued. I felt like giving them a hiding but didn’t, not because I couldn’t, but because I am civilised and knew that I would be in bother.
These people are third generation crap, who have been raised with absolutly no social skills all they know is abuse, vandalism and crime.
The problem, as stated above, is there is no deterrant. People harp on that community senences are better for rehabilitation, crap, these people will never be rehabilitated the only way to deal is to lock them up. I don’t care what people say, even the hardened criminal don’t like to be inside, they worry who is sorting their partner out etc.
The government need to build more gaols, cram them in, tell the judges to impose stiffer sentences and if they are given early release send them back the minute they re-offend,
REHABILITATION DOES NOT WORK, GAOL AT LEAST KEEPS THEM OFF THE STREETS.
This country IS going to the dogs; more specifically The Dogs With Ginger Eyebrows (see previous posts).
“She doesn’t care about robbing you and she’s not even on drugs.”
I havn’t read all the comments so apologies if this has been touched on before.
Does this mean being on drugs is some kind of excuse? Or even that this is what you would expect froma drug user? I know a lot of drug users who go about there life like the rest of the law abiding public but rather then going and spending £50 on alcohol at the weekend they do the same with drugs.
They would care if you got robbed though and they wouldn’t dream about doing it themselves.
Thanks
Oh and i realise that using the term law abiding public is probably not the right term considering they use drugs, but thats not my point
I used to live in wales previously.. I find that there a lot more of such council types present in england rather than wales in general..
excellent blog by the way..
andymouse,
My interpretation of what the inspector means by her not being on drugs is that her offences are not motivated by her withdrawal but by her purely criminal attitude. Not that that having a drug addiction is any kind of mitigation of course.
i actually think rehabilitation does work…..but i think the way its done needs to be changed.
heres the plan:
i think its fairly common knowledge that a repeat offender spends most of there time hanging round the rest of the no hopers of society.
this is not conducive to rehabilitation of the poor misguided souls, so i propose that we look at showing them there is a better, more productive life by integrating them with some of the “pillars” of the community….hey i know these people could be the same people that push for rehab and community sentances!
all the do gooders and politicians pushing for rehab should be put forward as experts in the area, then when one of these little darlings is caught and “punished” with a non custodial sentance there rehab should be supervised closely by these experts….so closely in fact that we move the little darlings into properties next door to the experts
well i cant see any flaws, surely the do gooders wouldnt complain would they?
Non pc pc
I suspect the do gooders would just try to get them all diagnosed with some imagined incurable disease with symptoms identical to criminality. They would then suggest the care should not be in the community.
The Great & The Good (Judges, Ministers, Chairmen of Police Authority etc)already have a place for difficult children – it’s called Boarding School!
It’s the same in schools. I don’t think the majority of kids have ever genuinely desired to learn about quadratic equations or the Treaty of Versailles, and most would much rather use the school simply as an extension of their social lives, requesting any teacher who interfered to suck their dick.
But they used to endure it with silent resentment because the alternative was physical pain. Take away the deterrent and they do what they always wanted to because they can.
I don’t know whether this carries over into Police work but it isn’t so much the severity of the punishment that works with kids as the absolute inevitability of it.
It would be a brave Judge that sentenced a young offender to 7 years hard Harrow.
The ‘until it happens to them’ remarks are quite valid. Burglary rates dropped in my home city when a prominent judge had his house done over. There followed an announcement that, in his court at least, domestic burglars would be looking at a starting point of two years.
What we need to do is to make it mandatory that all politicians live for at least a year in a council estate and have to send their kids to the local comprehensive. Everyone involved in policing in this country can tell a hundred tales like this one and nothing will change because the government and senior managers have long since lost the plot and don’t give a shit anyway
Where did it all go wrong?
When I went to school all those years ago, if i did something wrong i got the cane, the slipper or a clip off the teacher, I was brought up in a school where about 60% of the pupils came from poor background and lived in council houses. But as we had discipline, both at school and home, there were only about 3 bad lads in my year.
I once got a good clip off my teacher, when i went home and told my parents they asked what i had done, i told them and they said i deserved it, they were right. Today the little sods would tell their parents who would be straight to the teacher either giving them a hiding or taking legal action.
If we don’t get things right at the outset, school, we will never correct it. The same school i went to back then is now about 60% crap and totally lawless.
If this fails then non pc pc has a good idea
What we need is to lock up the scum & forget where the key is, not give them a tap on the back of the hand for being “naughty little boys & girls”. Bring back all the old harsh punishments, whipping, the stocks, hanging & then you’ll see the little sh*ts behaving themselves like they’re supposed to.
I don’t know…am I some kind of fascist ? I don’t know very much about parenting…but I smacked my kids if they did wrong…I smacked them hard if they hurt somebody (and told them why)…At 53 years of age I’ve helped bring up three stepchildren (kids of an errant traffic cop actually!) and two of my own…none of them live up to my (relatively low) expectations … but none of them have a criminal record either …is there something complicated here that I’ve missed?
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